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Old 02-27-2010, 09:21 PM   #16
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Hot water recirculator


Quote:
Originally Posted by plummen View Post
NO PUMP
OH GEEZ YOU GOT ME... oh wait...

http://www.nachi.org/hot-water-recir...on-systems.htm

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System Types

  • dedicated loop: The circulation pump for this system is mounted on a pipe connected to the water heater tank down low. This is the cooler side of the loop, or the return.
    The hot water pipe is installed in a loop throughout the home, passing near each plumbing fixture. At each fixture, a short pipe connects the loop to the hot water valve. Because hot water is constantly circulating through the hot water loop, any time a valve is opened, it takes only a fraction of a second for hot water to reach the valve.
This helps extend the lifespan of the pump. If the home is not occupied, this pump will be probably be unplugged because the seller doesn't want to pay for its operation in an empty house.
integrated loop: This system is typically used on retrofits but may also be installed on new construction. It consists of a pump installed under the plumbing fixture farthest from the water heater. The pump contains a sensor which switches the pump on when water temperature drops below 85 F, and switches it off when water temperature reaches 95 F. Newer pumps are adjustable from 77 to 104 F.

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Old 02-27-2010, 09:25 PM   #17
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Hot water recirculator


Gentlemen, are you plumbers?
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:36 PM   #18
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I am a state sanctioned plumbing apprentice. I've been doing this for 3 years now, put in both pumped recirc and thermal loop recirc systems.

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Old 02-27-2010, 09:59 PM   #19
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last time i looked i was a licensed master plumber ,licensed in several nebraska citys and also on the iowa side of the bridge.in the trades since 1980,in business on my own since 1996 http://hyetechutilities.com

Last edited by plummen; 02-27-2010 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 10:08 PM   #20
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dont take my or anybody elses word for it,ask a local plumber or inspector in your area what happens when you continue a 3/4" water line past the last fixture and loop it back to the drain on bottem of water heater with a check valve installed.make sure the supply line and the return loop are both insulated,leave the last 15' or so of the return line uninsulated.
Maybe our 3rd year apprentice could do a little bit of investigating,maybe ask the journeyman or master plumber he is working under about this idea and see what they think
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:45 AM   #21
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You need a pump for it to work properly and to ensure hot water at point of use.

Need constant recirc of hot water near all fixtures.

Alls we are talking about here is a loop with hot water in it that you draw from.

According to what people have posted there is no circulation as long as the faucets are closed, with a tempered loop and pump there is always circulation with the hot water at your fingertips.
I think you need a license on installing pumps.

Last edited by SULTINI; 02-28-2010 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Changed
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:00 AM   #22
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WTF? I've never seen a recirc system work without a pump unless you've created a thermal loop. (this is not possible under the house)


The heat might radiate a few feet from the furthest fixture into it, but this idea is kind of pointless without a pump of some sort.
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You need a pump for it to work properly and to ensure hot water at point of use.

.
WRONG WRONG WRONG If piped correctly you DO NOT need a pump. Sorry to shout but, it drives me nuts when people post things as fact when they have no clue what they are talking about. Plummen is correct if you pipe it how he said it will work 24/7 forever. No moving parts, nothing to break down, no electricity used. As long as we still have gravity it will work. FACT

BTW I have been a Master Plumber since 1986
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:57 AM   #23
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As long as we still have gravity it will work. FACT
The installation he's describing has nothing to do with gravity.

please clarify.
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SuperPlumberGuy View Post
WRONG WRONG WRONG If piped correctly you DO NOT need a pump. Sorry to shout but, it drives me nuts when people post things as fact when they have no clue what they are talking about. Plummen is correct if you pipe it how he said it will work 24/7 forever. No moving parts, nothing to break down, no electricity used. As long as we still have gravity it will work. FACT

BTW I have been a Master Plumber since 1986
thank you super plumb guy
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:10 AM   #25
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I understand your frustration, let me give you an example of what I mean even though this example is commercial in nature but it's the same principal.

School, Factory, large building, big house, Apartment building.Prisons.

Example : School, long hallways bathrooms at the other end of hallway from Mechanical room a hot water tempered loop is installed along with piping that loops it back to he Mechanical room , so when a student or whoever needs hot water 5oo yards froM the source it's always there and when the valve is opened it draws Hot water off that loop .

Same principal as house or any other application.

In addition no need to yell and get frustrated because other people know the answer too.

" I DON'T NEED NO STINKING LICENSE"
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:35 AM   #26
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What circulates the water?
Anyone?
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Old 02-28-2010, 11:49 AM   #27
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Im no engineer but i believe the word youre looking for is convection.The 3rd year apprentice is supposed to be finding out about this,dont want to give him all the answers before he gets back on here!
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:05 PM   #28
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you plumb your stuff up with a pump and ill plumb my stuff without one except when needed,then everybody will be happy! just dont tell people you cant have a recirc line without a pump till you have actually tried it first the way it has been explained
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:15 PM   #29
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It's impossible to work the way you guys said it would. And don't tell me what to say. I forgot more about plumbing than you'll ever know. License or no license. Read post # 16 till you get it.

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 02-28-2010 at 02:05 PM. Reason: edited
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Old 02-28-2010, 12:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SULTINI View Post
It's impossible to work the way you guys said it would. And don't tell me what to say. I forgot more about plumbing than you'll ever know. License or no license. Read post # 16 till you get it.
Its entirely possable youve forgotten more than ill ever know,but then again maybe its not! Have you ever seen any of my work?
Have you ever tried plumbing a recirc line the way ive suggested doing it ? maybe you should check into it instead of just saying it wont work ,maybe youll be suprised what you find out

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Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 02-28-2010 at 02:05 PM. Reason: edited quote
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