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Old 01-29-2011, 05:49 PM   #31
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Docwhitley View Post
I think Jack has hit the nail on the head here! There is something wrong with the washing machine allowing this to happen. While you are changing the hoses... Spend less than $2o and get some Burst proof stainless braided hoses. You can test the theory by shutting off the water and then testing the other faucets. If they work you know where your problem is happening.
DOC now that is most sensible thing I have heard yet, isolate the freaking washing machine by closing the hot & cold.
NOW does the hot water work or not . Come back on and tell us.

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Last edited by COLDIRON; 01-30-2011 at 12:13 PM. Reason: changed
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:21 PM   #32
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


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Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
Turn the valves off at the washer and see it makes any difference.
Now that was post #4, why the heck would I be squiming, again, my friend it just shows that you haven't read the posts all the way through, check and I believe mate.

"COLDIRON - DOC now that is most sensible thing I have heard yet, isolate the freaking washing machine by closing the hot & cold.
NOW does the hot water work or not . Come back on and tell us.

Squirm jackolantern"

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Old 01-30-2011, 07:34 AM   #33
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Jack I apologize for not seeing that I guess it's because I was sidetracked by your comments referring to another post that had nothing to do with helping the person with the Hot water Problem.

Now let's start all over, to the OP shut off the washing machine valves and check the hot water if there's a problem then step 2, but first step 1 before anything else. Plus give us the information requested.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:58 AM   #34
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


My 2 worth, from experience: Having the clothes washing machine's hoses crossed will NOT do what the original poster asked about. NOR will having the wires crossed on the fill valve solenoids. I'm betting that if the OP turns off the water to the washer, he will still have the same problem. I also do not believe it is the water heater. I have seen this very scenario twice, both in apartment buildings. I'm thinking that there is a "temperature differential control valve" somewhere in the plumbing in the apartment, which is plumbed in a "cross-connection" configuration. These act just like the one's for just a shower/bath assembly, only for the whole house. They are intended to prevent hot water with an excessive hot temp from scalding/burning someone at any tap. But when they go bad, the allow a complete cross-over of all the taps withing the dwelling. Being as this is New York, it would not surprise me that these are a code compliance up there for apartments and was installed before the OP moved into the unit. Asking the landlord if these apartment units have one of these may help. With the washing machine, even when it is not running the valves should close off positively enough to prevent any cross-over, and when they are both open I highly doubt you could get cross-over as the HOT and COLD water should be delivering at the same pressure.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:13 AM   #35
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


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temperature differential control valve
I know nothing about these, but this makes sense to me in regard to the house faucets. If there is a connection between that and the washing machine, I still do not get it.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:11 PM   #36
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


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Originally Posted by Thurman View Post
My 2 worth, from experience: Having the clothes washing machine's hoses crossed will NOT do what the original poster asked about. NOR will having the wires crossed on the fill valve solenoids. I'm betting that if the OP turns off the water to the washer, he will still have the same problem. I also do not believe it is the water heater. I have seen this very scenario twice, both in apartment buildings. I'm thinking that there is a "temperature differential control valve" somewhere in the plumbing in the apartment, which is plumbed in a "cross-connection" configuration. These act just like the one's for just a shower/bath assembly, only for the whole house. They are intended to prevent hot water with an excessive hot temp from scalding/burning someone at any tap. But when they go bad, the allow a complete cross-over of all the taps withing the dwelling. Being as this is New York, it would not surprise me that these are a code compliance up there for apartments and was installed before the OP moved into the unit. Asking the landlord if these apartment units have one of these may help. With the washing machine, even when it is not running the valves should close off positively enough to prevent any cross-over, and when they are both open I highly doubt you could get cross-over as the HOT and COLD water should be delivering at the same pressure.
Thurman a man with sense I have been on this page with you since the beginning and trying to get more information from the OP regarding the hot water system , building, where it comes from, etc etc. I am having trouble trying to think this through because of a couple Morton Downey Jr's. In addition the OP is not responding back to help the situation. I am with you.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:44 PM   #37
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


double post

Last edited by boman47k; 01-30-2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason: partial double post
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:46 PM   #38
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Quote:
couple Morton Downey Jr's
My comments got very few responses, but I hope I am not included in that statement. I did not mean to come across as such.

I think I asked about the inlet tube feeding the to the bottom of the tank, mentioned the anode tube, etc. No response. So be it. Made sense to me for the one problem. Like I said, I had no idea about the temp controls mentioned by Thurman. No experience here with condos/apartments.

I do wish the op'er would return with more info or the solution if found.

P.s. In one my replies, I said, " someone correct me if I am wrong" about the inworkings of the waterheater. Got no response. I was not sure whether no one knew or was just ignoring my ignorant a**.

Hehehe, thats okay, I can google it or look in some trade mag's for my own satisfaction.

Last edited by boman47k; 01-30-2011 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:54 PM   #39
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurman View Post
My 2 worth, from experience: Having the clothes washing machine's hoses crossed will NOT do what the original poster asked about. NOR will having the wires crossed on the fill valve solenoids. I'm betting that if the OP turns off the water to the washer, he will still have the same problem. I also do not believe it is the water heater. I have seen this very scenario twice, both in apartment buildings. I'm thinking that there is a "temperature differential control valve" somewhere in the plumbing in the apartment, which is plumbed in a "cross-connection" configuration. These act just like the one's for just a shower/bath assembly, only for the whole house. They are intended to prevent hot water with an excessive hot temp from scalding/burning someone at any tap. But when they go bad, the allow a complete cross-over of all the taps withing the dwelling. Being as this is New York, it would not surprise me that these are a code compliance up there for apartments and was installed before the OP moved into the unit. Asking the landlord if these apartment units have one of these may help. With the washing machine, even when it is not running the valves should close off positively enough to prevent any cross-over, and when they are both open I highly doubt you could get cross-over as the HOT and COLD water should be delivering at the same pressure.

I would usually agree with this but, when I read the following comment in th original post... I have a problem with that theory.



After a bit of trouble shooting, I have figured out that when we have the washing machine on the START of a cycle (i.e. when the water is filling up in the machine) I can run the hot tap in the downstairs bathroom, and I believe any other hot tap, and it stays continuously hot. As soon as the machine cycle moves to the next stage (i.e. it stops filling up and rotates), the hot water from the tap runs cold instantly.

Now When I am picturing a connnection fpr a washing machine I am picturing 2 outlets (one for hot and one for cold) that are constantly on. Now if the OP were to do the following steps then I believe it can daignose his problem... I guess I sould say this is what I would do.

1- Turn off both the hot and cold- Will the water stay hot now?
yes- Go to step 2
no- Then your problem is not your washer and we need more info- Go to step 3
2- Connect the ends of the hoses together using a coupling and turn both hot and cold back on and test it again.
no- problem is that the pressure on your cold water side is to great and is taking over the hot water by taking the path of least reistance- I think you will need to have the appliance repaired.
yes- go to step 3
3 Replace the Hoses with Burst free hoses and make sure you connect the hot to the hot... cold to the cold



One other thing, if I put the washing machine on a COLD cycle, hot water comes out, and on a HOT cycle, cold water comes out.


This could be either the Washer connected wrong or Plumbing not piped correctly. If it is the hoses you just swap the outlets ... Done
If it is piped in wrong then you need to do 2 steps- Same as above- Swap the hoses... BUT you should also remove the red and blue handles and swap them.

Last but not least... get back with us
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:00 PM   #40
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


First, thanks so much to all of you for your input. Must admit as a complete plumbing novice some of it went over my head, but there is definitely some info there that I can investigate further. Boman, sorry for not answering your questions from #22. I will give that a go tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

Thurman, that's a really interesting theory. I'm pretty sure I have heard the "temperature differential control valve" thing from somebody else and indeed I do believe it is a code compliance thing here in NYC. Problem is, where on earth in the plumbing would the plumber find it?

To give you guys a little more info, yes we do own the place and it is the top two floors of a 4 story brownstone. The hot water heater sits in the basement.

One last thing, we have two bathrooms, one on the 3rd floor and one directly above on 4. The test I described earlier (running the hot water with the hot cycle going resulting in constant hot water) was in the bathroom downstairs. Now today I tried the same thing in the bathroom on the 4th floor (putting the machine on a hot cycle) and running the hot tap in the bath resulted in a constant flow of cold water! Bizarre. In the same bathroom I ran the hot tap in the sink and that was scalding hot.

Cheers again for all the input. I will try a couple of the things suggested on here tomorrow and let you all know how it goes
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:04 PM   #41
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


I have a simular problem. I just bought a 5 year old house with a 50 gal gas water heater and a recirculator. It seems that we get a few minutes of hot water and then it goes to warm. If we shut off the hot water and then turn it on after a minute it is hot again. Never tried seeing if the washing machine has any effect. I'm not there right now.
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:48 PM   #42
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Alright, so a little more info. for you. Boman, I did another wash on the COLD setting (with hot water coming out) and indeed, it did go cold after initially starting off hot. The strange thing is, whilst the bathroom faucet in the tub downstairs remained scalding hot the entire time (until the washing machine went into the next cycle), the hot tap in the bath tub upstairs ran freezing cold the entire time!
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Old 01-31-2011, 09:54 PM   #43
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


OK, I had a similar service call about 8 months ago-similar in that hot and cold water were coming out randomly and unpredictably from both hot and cold taps. The problem was in a shower valve. It was a single handle valve that had the "scald guard" feature and the balancing spool or the scald guard prevention device in the shower valve had failed and was stuck open, so hot and cold water could intermingle and flow back and forth, even when that shower was not being used.
I do think the hot water pressure differential device could also be your problem.

Also, on a completely unrelated matter, I would really like to see people be more polite. I think everybody here is trying to help. Enough with the "reread the post", but you reread the post first. I got out of junior high a long time ago.

I hope the plumbing advice helps.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:06 PM   #44
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Hi broox, thanks for the input. I suppose the shower valve could have something to do with it. Although, the same hot water running cold problem (the running hot again after turning off for half a minute) exists in the kitchen sink. So pretty much the same behavior is exhibited in all of the faucets in the apartment. The only behavior that seems to differ is that of the downstairs and upstairs bathrooms when the washing machine is on a hot cycle.

And just want to say thanks again for all of the really helpful advice.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:15 PM   #45
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Hot water problem - Figured out cause - Need advice how to fix!


Hi all,

Well, I am still trying to figure out what is happening with the plumbing over here. As a newbie, can somebody explain why the following might occur?

We have two bathrooms one upstairs and one downstairs, one directly above the other. Upstairs we have the washing machine. I recently discovered that if I put the washing machine on a cold wash, we get a constant flow of hot water from the shower faucet in the bathroom downstairs (if it is put on hot). However, in the bathroom upstairs the water runs freezing cold from the hot. Any ideas?

Thanks. My next move is to call in the plumber, but just trying to troubleshoot as much as possible before then.

Could this be caused by the "temperature differential control valve"? Again, as we are in NYC I think Thurman is right about this being in place b/c of code.

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