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Old 08-29-2012, 05:14 PM   #16
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Home leak.


To all that replied... follow up on water leak.
Plumber came out today and will return tomorrow again.
This is where we are:
Expansion tank connected to water heater...the triangle
on the main water meter turns very slowly.
Expansion tank disconnected from water heater (line being
capped off) the triangle on the meter stops.
So its the expansion tank....not yet. Put new one on and
it was back to the problem...meter moving.
Expansion tanks were not filled with water and
in the plumbers eyes they were not defective...go figure.
So right now the water heater has no expansion tank on
it and the meter works as it should.
Plumber is coming out tomorrow to do more tests. Believe he is
going to test for back flow pressure by applying a check valve
on one of the water lines.
As for now....my outside and home lines have no leak when i
am not using water.

Danny...your reply....yes, someone from downtown did come
out to inspect the water heater. A follow up inspection was required
by the city and it passed in his eyes.

Will follow up with the results.

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Old 08-29-2012, 05:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need 101 View Post
Danny...your reply....yes, someone from downtown did come out to inspect the water heater. A follow up inspection was required
by the city and it passed in his eyes.
Yikes, that doesn't say much for the quality of their inspections, but sadly that comes as no surprise. Too many inspectors either don't know what's legit- in either direction. Passing garbage or inventing something unnecessary.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
Yikes, that doesn't say much for the quality of their inspections, but sadly that comes as no surprise. Too many inspectors either don't know what's legit- in either direction. Passing garbage or inventing something unnecessary.
Please tell me what is against code with that heater install. Curious minds want to know..
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:00 PM   #19
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Home leak.


Having a shut off valve on the hot water side of your water heater is the problem
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
Having a shut off valve on the hot water side of your water heater is the problem

How is that ryan50hrl? i leave the hot side ball valve open all the time. I see
no reason to close it. Since it is open all the time how would that be
causing the problem with the expansion tank?
Right now both hot and cold ball valves are open (as normal). Expansion
tank is off ( line is capped off for now) and there is no sign of leaks
at all.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
Having a shut off valve on the hot water side of your water heater is the problem
I do it often- In fact, it's often required, especially on commercial jobs. Not a code violation here. T&P valve is on the heater.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:35 PM   #22
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Home leak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
Having a shut off valve on the hot water side of your water heater is the problem
Please elaborate, or your claim is baseless.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #23
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Home leak.


Sorry for the delay on the follow up. Crazy week.
Ok...there was never a leak. Leak meaning water escaping
from a pipe line or any where else.
The problem was the expansion tank. According to the plumbers...
it was putting back flow pressure to the meter. Without the expansion
tank the water heater was working fine and the city meter triangle
was not showing any movement in water flow.
But with the use of the expansion tank the city meter would show
movement indicating a leak somewhere.
To solve this problem a check valve was placed on the cold side
of the water line. This would prevent any water or pressure to travel
back the opposite way. It did work.
So with the expansion tank on the city meter shows "no" movement.
This solve the problem.
I said there was no leak...let me explain what was happening.
Lets just say for example a gallon of water ( It could be a pint, a cup,
does not matter) just for the story.
A gallon of water would passed by the meter on the way to my house.
The meter would turn and i would get charge for this. Now the expansion
tank would push that backwards into the meter. That same gallon would
pass once again into the meter toward my house and it would just go on
like that over and over. A forward and backward motion of the same amount of water.
So there was never a leak in the piping, foundation, faucets, toliets.
I was paying for the same gallon of water over and over.
So there it is. It fumbled me as well as the plumbers. The city plans
on getting all new water meters in the future.
And for those curious ones, as i was... the meter was not turning backwards as the water moved backwards.
I was told these meters do not work that way.
Thanks for all the replies. I will keep this site in my favorities.
Once again sorry for the delay on the follow up. Life can be busy, lol.
Later.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:09 PM   #24
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Water meters usually spin backwards if water goes backwards through them.....


at least the ones i've seen. No offense, but the solution sounds bogus to me.

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Old 09-06-2012, 12:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Water meters usually spin backwards if water goes backwards through them.....


at least the ones i've seen. No offense, but the solution sounds bogus to me.

I haven't thought this through but, it sounds like the exp. tank is too small? Shouldn't it absorb all the excess pressure and hold it?
By putting a check valve in you are causing the excess pressure to build up in the house distribution piping and defeating the purpose of the exp. tank. Am I right?
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Old 09-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
I haven't thought this through but, it sounds like the exp. tank is too small? Shouldn't it absorb all the excess pressure and hold it?
By putting a check valve in you are causing the excess pressure to build up in the house distribution piping and defeating the purpose of the exp. tank. Am I right?
Nah....... Normally a 1 or 2 gal expansion tank does the trick.....


The problem is that the city doesn't have a check valve at their meter, so actually in this instance there is no need for an expansion tank in the first place.

In otherwords, the expansion tank is doing nothing, and most definitely not causing the problem.


The water heater is heating, and expanding the water back into the city's system.

I'm surprised everyone on the OP's street isn't having this problem, if this is the case.

And in response to your comment about it defeating the purpose by installing a check valve : that would just depend on where they installed the check valve. :D

Not to mention the entire train of thought in that entire post explaining the issue was completely ridiculous. The expansion tank pushing water backwards just doesn't happen. It's a static device, and has no mechanical parts, nor a brain. :P
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Please elaborate, or your claim is baseless.
Depends on the AHJ,.

For example, here in Chicago:

18-29-503.1.1 Shut-off valves
Shutoff valves for water heaters or heated water storage tanks may be installed on the inlet side only.

I inspect in around 80 separate communities in Lake and Cook counties (northern Illinois), most if not all prohibit a valve on the outlet side of a WH.
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Last edited by Michael Thomas; 09-06-2012 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #28
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"I inspect in around 80 separate communities in Lake in Cook counties (northern Illinois), most if not all prohibit a valve on the outlet side of a WH."
That doesn't make sense to me; every fixture is a shut-off valve, so how does one before a fixture become prohibited?
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:02 PM   #29
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That doesn't make sense to me; every fixture is a shut-off valve, so how does one before a fixture become prohibited?
If there's an inlet shut off then there's not much point to an output shut off, is there? And there's DEFINITELY need for an inlet shut off. I suppose the biggest reason for not having both is if some nitwit closed both, left the heater running and it's pressure release failed. Ka-BOOM! Certainly an outside-odds chance though.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
If there's an inlet shut off then there's not much point to an output shut off, is there? And there's DEFINITELY need for an inlet shut off. I suppose the biggest reason for not having both is if some nitwit closed both, left the heater running and it's pressure release failed. Ka-BOOM! Certainly an outside-odds chance though.
Yeah, outside-odds indeed... in 5 years i've only ever changed 1 T&P, and it had failed, but it was leaking.





What about a keyed valve, such as a screwdriver stop, or something with a lock to prevent it from being closed unless needed?

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