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Old 12-13-2009, 08:08 AM   #1
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help running 2" pvc


good morning everyone.

I am adding a laundry room to my second floor. Running the pex for the water and the 3/4" black pipe and electrical lines have ended up being easy. Running the 2" pvc pipe has turned out to be a challenge. The easiest way so far has been to come down the same wall as my other lines and tie into a basement drain, however when I get down to the basement I have to run across my floor joists which is going to make me nuts. I have 2x16" engineered I joists that are 12" on center. Can I drill a series of holes and use 10 or so couplings to join all the pipes together? Idealy I would build a sofit downstairs but the windows in the basement are within 2 or 3" of my ceiling and the sofit would then cover the top of the windows - would look silly. My other option would be to take down one wall and reframe it further from the foundation wall so I have a chase behind the wall to run the drain. any opinions?? I know the I joists can take the holes being drill through them, just don't know if it's a good idea to use all those couplings..

thanks!!

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Old 12-13-2009, 09:59 AM   #2
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help running 2" pvc


if these have a plywood web you can drill thru them, you need to see if you can find a manufacture mark and get their penetration layout. they are very specific

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Old 12-13-2009, 10:47 AM   #3
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help running 2" pvc


Thank you for the reply. I'm ok with drilling through the joists. They are 2x16s and we would be drilling within a couple of feet of the end of the joists. I checked the documentation for the joists and from what I see that is fine. I'm more concerned about the drain pipe having so many cuts and couplings installed.

while i'm at it, I'm laying out the drain for the machine on my top floor and could use some advice. since I'm not tying into to my existing stack, I'm running the 2" pvc from the top floor to the basement and am actually going to tie into the drain where the machine is now. I am planning on running a vent to my attic and tying into a nearby bathroom vent that is already in the attic. I am assuming that I can tee off the standpipe, before the trap and run and 1-1/2" vent into the attic - tying into an existing 1-1/2 vent (that then ties into a 4" vent going through the roof). the new vent would come into the attic about 10' from the existing vent.

As far as the floor drain goes, I'm not sure what the best way to run that is. I've received conflicting reports from different people about tying into my drain system or not. If I tie into my existing drain system I was planning on running 2" pvc to where my drain starts going through the floor down to the basement and tying in there - and then I would imagine I should run a vent for the floor drain as well - can I just come up the wall and tie into the new vent pipe I am running into the attic?

Thank you!!!!
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Old 12-13-2009, 11:40 AM   #4
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help running 2" pvc


I'm with you all the way through the laundry connection and venting etc.. But do not tie in your pan drain to the house plumbing unless you're going to install a trap primer which is a device that designed to keep a trap that doesn't get much use full of water to prevent sewer gases from entering the building. And if you do that, then yes, you have to then vent the pan drain, too. To make it all work and meet any code considerations, you'd have to do something like this:
(EDIT: Sorry...don't know what's wrong with my diagram - can't get it to line up. Let me know if you can't decipher it.):

................................|
................................|
............................../|<------"Y" Fitting
..............................| |
Laundry Trap-- > U--| |
..............................| |
..............................| |
---------------------------------<-----Floor
..............................| |--------U <-----Pan/Floor drain
......."Y" Fitting----> \ |
.................................|
.................................|
Notice that each drain comes off it's own riser, and that the drain for the laundry ties in downstream of the drain for the pan.

The easier way to do a drain for the pan is to run it down to the basement separately and leave the open end of the pipe suspended just above (an inch or two) the rim of a utility sink that's properly connected - no vent/no trap necessary (on the pan drain).

As far as all the couplings...it's fine, and often a necessity. Just make sure you debur the inside ends of each piece of pipe.

Last edited by Ishmael; 12-13-2009 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:33 PM   #5
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help running 2" pvc


thank you Ishmael!!

Ok - the easy stuff first - glad to know I can tie into the existing vent - makes life easy..

Glad to know it's no problem drilling through all the joists and using a bunch of couplings - lot of work but will ultimately make life easy...

As far as tying in the floor drain, I don't have a utility sink to vent to in the basement so I think tying into the house plumbing is my best option, and I was already planning on picking up a trap primer.. I'm just confused as to the best way to run the drain and that diagram threw me for a loop

Instead of a diagram I'll try to explain it this way..

Standpipe will be coming up the wall about three ft. tied into the laundry box.. working my way down I will have a T or a Y (does it matter which I use) 2x1-1/2 which will run up into the attic tying into an adjacent bathroom vent about 10' away. Below the T I will have a trap - if you could picture the trap will be installed in the wall, between two studs - the bottom of the trap a few inches off the ground - 2" PVC then running out of the trap, 90 degree turn through the floor into the cavity between the joists, then another 90 degree turn turning the pipe towards the exterior wall of the house (the wall perpendicular to where the machine will be) then turning 90 down - going down two stories to my basement tying into an existing drain down there.

Now, as far as the floor drain goes, that will be installed in the floor about 30" away from the wall. This is where my confusion comes in....=) I was planning on:

(floor drain) --------2" pvc going to a trap ----------connecting to a y fitting right before where the pipe comes up from the basement and tying in there. Between the floor drain and trap installing a 2s1-1/2 tee and running my vent up the wall and connecting to the existing 1-1/2" pvc that I just ran for the vent coming off the standpipe. Does that make sense? I'm very comfortable running the lines and doing the work, just not sure what is best practice for venting and running a drain line in this manner...

Thank you again!!!
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:19 PM   #6
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help running 2" pvc


Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzonetv View Post
thank you Ishmael!!

Ok - the easy stuff first - glad to know I can tie into the existing vent - makes life easy..

Glad to know it's no problem drilling through all the joists and using a bunch of couplings - lot of work but will ultimately make life easy...

As far as tying in the floor drain, I don't have a utility sink to vent to in the basement so I think tying into the house plumbing is my best option, and I was already planning on picking up a trap primer.. I'm just confused as to the best way to run the drain and that diagram threw me for a loop

Instead of a diagram I'll try to explain it this way..

Standpipe will be coming up the wall about three ft. tied into the laundry box.. working my way down I will have a T or a Y (does it matter which I use) 2x1-1/2 which will run up into the attic tying into an adjacent bathroom vent about 10' away. Below the T I will have a trap - if you could picture the trap will be installed in the wall, between two studs - the bottom of the trap a few inches off the ground - 2" PVC then running out of the trap, 90 degree turn through the floor into the cavity between the joists, then another 90 degree turn turning the pipe towards the exterior wall of the house (the wall perpendicular to where the machine will be) then turning 90 down - going down two stories to my basement tying into an existing drain down there.

Now, as far as the floor drain goes, that will be installed in the floor about 30" away from the wall. This is where my confusion comes in....=) I was planning on:

(floor drain) --------2" pvc going to a trap ----------connecting to a y fitting right before where the pipe comes up from the basement and tying in there. Between the floor drain and trap installing a 2s1-1/2 tee and running my vent up the wall and connecting to the existing 1-1/2" pvc that I just ran for the vent coming off the standpipe. Does that make sense? I'm very comfortable running the lines and doing the work, just not sure what is best practice for venting and running a drain line in this manner...

Thank you again!!!
I couldn't completely follow your description, so let me try explaining it as it should be:

1) From the laundry box, you'll drop down into the trap (just a few inches above the floor).
2) The outlet side of the trap will run to the branch inlet of a T (not a Y)
3) The vent (which can be 1 1/2") will rise up from the top of that T and continue up into the attic and be tied into an existing vent. (Do the work in the attic last, btw)
4) On the outlet side of the T described in step 2, you'll drop down through the floor. From what I understand, you then have to run horizontally to reach the outside wall where the drain will go down the outside wall and tie into the existing laundry waste arm in the basement (where you'll install a cleanout).
5) You make the turn from vertical to horizontal with a "long sweep 90" (or a couple of 45's - do not use a "short sweep" or "vent 90").
6) Anywhere along that horizontal run, you can install a Y to pick up the pan/floor drain.
7) Working upstream from the branch of that Y, you run parallel to the laundry drain. When you reach the wall where the laundry is plumbed, you install a 2" x 1 1/2" T on it's back (1 1/2" branch facing up)
8) The 1 1/2" vent will continue up the wall and tie into the new laundry vent a minimum of 6" above the top of the standpipe.
9) Upstream of the 2" x 1 1/2" T (step 7), you'll continue on to the trap for the pan/floor drain which shall be equipped with a trap primer.
10) Getting back to the outlet side of the Y (step 6), you continue the drain to the exterior wall where it will then drop down to the basement etc. The turn from horizontal to vertical can be a short sweep fitting.

Last edited by Ishmael; 12-13-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:58 AM   #7
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help running 2" pvc


Wow - thank you for such a detailed reply! I follow you 100% and it all makes sense. I really appreciate your help.

If I could bother you for one more question...I was thinking of eventually adding a three piece bathroom in the basement where the washing machine was. The way it is set up now is that the 2" pvc standpipe came down into a trap then horizontally over to a tee, the "vent" went into the ceiling but was never hooked up to anything - guess they ran a dummy to pass inspection. The drain continued horizontally than runs into the floor - i would imagine it then ties into a 4" line going the lenth of the house - of course all buried in cement =) I can actually see the top of a reducing coupling.

So, if I wanted to eventually install a bathroom downstairs, what is my best way to vent it? Figure while I have everything open if i need to run a seperate vent up to the attic now would be a good time.

Thank you so much - you're help is greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-14-2009, 12:52 PM   #8
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Yeah, you'd have to run a new 2" vent all the way up and tie it in together with your new laundry pan vent 6" (minimum) above the top of the laundry standpipe (unless there's a first floor vent you can tie it into along the way. You would follow the same rule: tie the vent in a minimum of 6" above the highest flood level rim of the all fixtures on that floor; so...if you want to tee it into a vent that serves a toilet, for example - even though the flood level rim of the toilet is about 17" off the floor, you'd still have to cut your tee in 6" above the 32" high sink rim that's right next to the toilet. I usually just cut them in at 42", then I know I'm safe.)

Since this is a vent that will serve fixtures that are not yet connected, it is called a "future vent", and it's required in MA even if the owner has no plans to install anything in the basement. Another requirement is that the vent needs to be "drip connected" in the basement - that just means it needs to be tied into a waste pipe. If you run it down to the basement and just cap it, water vapor and rain water can find it's way down into that dead end and just sit there. In your case, you can tie it into your old laundry waste (in the basement) along with your new laundry drain. Just where it comes down through your basement ceiling, you can leave a T with a 6" piece of pipe and a cap (sticking out horizontally) up as high as you can; when you're ready to install the basement bathroom, just cut off that cap and vent your new bathroom.

Wherever you tie in the future vent, the pipe must be at least 2" all the way up to the attic and through the roof.


Last edited by Ishmael; 12-14-2009 at 01:09 PM.
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