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Old 01-30-2010, 12:45 AM   #31
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Help, help, help, trying to cut old drain & keeps crushing.


It is vented, just not with a cheater vent. Its original from before I bought the house. You just cant see it because its below the floor line. It the Clean out makes the issue I can remove it, I just thought it would be good to have one. Yes someone else said something about he siphon to, but that was I think before I found that it was vented.
I may be just having a hard time to understand, sorry about that. Maybe part is its late and my mind thinks I should be sleeping I appreciate all your guys comments, they will help me along the way.

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Old 01-30-2010, 12:53 AM   #32
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don't hold me to this but I believe the vent must be above where the p trap drops down else it could cause a siphoning action.

I do not believe the clean out is a problem.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:38 AM   #33
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The two illustrations show unvented trap arrangements drawn in black. I have added red vent lines that would have to be in place in order for the trap to be properly vented. Again, whenever the trap drains "down" a vent line must rise up from the point where the trap discharges into the vertical portion of the drain. The arrangement in the last picture( posted above) is an unvented S trap, regardless of where the drain ultimately terminates.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:40 AM   #34
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thanks NHMaster, very easy to understand.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:46 AM   #35
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Help, help, help, trying to cut old drain & keeps crushing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by willowgirl View Post
Hi did you guys see where I said i found where its vented. So I think I may not need to add a cheater vent. I'm going to try and find more info about this before I glue it all together.

Dave I didn't buy a "S" trap , I think the way its put together I guess looks like one, which may be why you think I put one in. I had to be able to be able to connect the "P" Trap to the drain. (100% P Trap that I bought I copied the receipt so you can see the list)
The total assembly with the pipe & trap cleanout piping is a S trap
Yes, you need the vent
The existing vent wherever it is, is not in the correct place to prevent siphoning & meet code
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHMaster View Post
The two illustrations show unvented trap arrangements drawn in black. I have added red vent lines that would have to be in place in order for the trap to be properly vented. Again, whenever the trap drains "down" a vent line must rise up from the point where the trap discharges into the vertical portion of the drain. The arrangement in the last picture( posted above) is an unvented S trap, regardless of where the drain ultimately terminates.

Hum, ok is there a min. distance the P trap has to be from the sink or would it be ok to move it below the floor? So it will be below where the vent connects.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:19 AM   #37
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I can not be below the floor.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:44 AM   #38
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I kind of though you may say that. Ok well, I'll let you guys know once I have figured out what i'm going to do with this and how it worked out.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:50 AM   #39
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I would remove your last 90 that turns down, put in a T with an aav above
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:47 AM   #40
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I understand about using the vent. The Problem is that I don't think the code will allow me to use a cheater vent. But to do it properly its seems pretty much impossible without somehow getting a vent pipe up the 3 floors of house to ext the roof.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:48 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
The total assembly with the pipe & trap cleanout piping is a S trap
Yes, you need the vent
The existing vent wherever it is, is not in the correct place to prevent siphoning & meet code
Code in my area and yours is different I believe.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:52 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowgirl View Post
Code in my area and yours is different I believe.
So S traps are legal where you are ?
Can you cite the code section that allows it where you are ?
Possibly (Canada ?) does allow it (pre-existing),...from one site:

Quote:
The procedure shown here would not meet plumbing codes in most places in the United States and Canada, where a "P"-trap that connects to a vented vertical drain line would normally be required. Water in an "S"-trap can easily be siphoned out by lack of proper venting
From another site:

Quote:
Of course you realize that "S" traps are outlawed in the US and Canada.
But why would you want a trap that has been proven to cause siphoning ?
I think a dual sink is less likely to have this happen
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:10 PM   #43
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Yes Dave I live in Canada. I never said anything about an S trap being legal anywhere! I said I didn't think a cheater vent was to code if you read what I put above. You seem so focused on S traps.
I like everyone's input, but being told what code and the laws are is a slippery slop, when you don't actually know where I live, which I feel can be misleading in many ways. If your telling someone what code is in your area and they don't live in that area the information can be incorrect.
I think its great that everyone can help out, give tips. This is a great site for that, I just think that people need to be careful of telling people it has to be done there way because its code or outlawed.
I'm sure you may think I'm sound irritated or whatever but i've said over and over I didnt' purchase and S trap. That maybe it looks like it or forms that design because of the way it had to be run into the line.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:28 PM   #44
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If, you are just doing a repair to the existing trap you can get away with what you have done already.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:19 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowgirl View Post
I'm sure you may think I'm sound irritated or whatever but i've said over and over I didnt' purchase and S trap. That maybe it looks like it or forms that design because of the way it had to be run into the line.
You may be interested in comparing this image of an S-Trap:



to your image


I don't think anyone here is contending that you purchased an S-Trap. But you have constructed one from your trap and elbows.

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