Hard Water And Nitrates - Plumbing - DIY Home Improvement | DIYChatroom


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-23-2009, 08:59 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


I have well water. Tested yesterday at 26 ppm nitrates, 16 grains hardness, 0.1ppm iron. I also have conventional septic system

Family of 5. 4 girls and they use alot of water!

Sales Rep recommended a WaterCare Trident Softener estimating regen every 4 days.

Also recommended a Kenetico K5 system for kitchen sink and refrig. price quote was $3200 installed.

I searched online and found a RainDance system called Nitrate Eater that is a dual ion exchange to remove nitrates and soften water.

Seems to me the regen frequency on the unit quoted is high? Also price seems steep. Looking for advice here.

Also, anyone have experience with the Raindance Nitrate Eater?

Thanks. Look forward to replies.

Advertisement

mduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 12:27 PM   #2
Water quality'n pump guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wherever I park the motorhome.
Posts: 358
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Man that's a lot of Nitrates. You should test for Nitrites too. No one should be ingesting any of this water, no brushing teeth etc..

You do not want the Raindance top dressed thing. You should go with a separate 'filter' with Nitrate specific resin(actually a softener with different resin in it) and then a softener. Then any high quality 50 gal/day industry standard off the shelf stock RO.

And stop worrying about the regeneration schedule, Nitrates is a serious health concern. So it will take the amount of water it takes to get rid of the problem. And tell the girls to get conservative or you will do it for them (I raised 4 girls), don't put that job off on like the 14th boyfriend or 3rd husband.

Advertisement

__________________
Gary Slusser
23 years in water treatment and well pumps, 13 years on the 'net helping others to help themselves.
Gary Slusser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 03:54 PM   #3
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


"Nitrate" expressed as Nitrogen is different from "nitrates"...

The poster said 26ppm 'nitrates', or IMO the equivalent of about 7ppm nitrates-as-nitrogen.

That is within certain limits...as far as I know anyway.
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 08:41 PM   #4
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


So the water tester comes in. Uses his Hach test kit. I see the brownish precipitate form and he reads the colorimeter or turbidity meter device and states your nitrates are very high at 26 ppm.

Is he telling me nitrates as nitrogen or nitrates as nitrate?

How should I pose the question back to him to make certain we are talking apples to apples?
mduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 09:16 PM   #5
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,297
Rewards Points: 2,172
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


See the following website for EPA recommended standards for drinking water. Note that the standard for nitrate measured as nitrogen is 10 ppm.

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contami...html#inorganic

You will need the written documentation from the laboratory to determine the exact value they determined for the nitrate. Also note that nitrate is listed as dangerous to infants under the age of 6 months (causes blue baby syndrome), however it is not at all clear what danger nitrates pose to adults or children over the age of 6 months.

Nitrates are not a common natural constituent of groundwater, often they are present due to excess fertilizer, septic effluent entering the groundwater, or improperly stored chemicals. You may wish to investigate the source of the nitrates before investing a lot of money to remove nitrates from the water.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 09:34 PM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Thanks Daneil.

I live in an agricultural area. Adjacent land is farmed either beans, corn soybeans or peas depending on what is bringing in the cash. I can only imagine his fertilizer is the main culprit.

Soil is well draining sand and silty loam
mduff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 10:09 PM   #7
Household Handyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, Ga.
Posts: 2,294
Rewards Points: 1,040
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Having been in water treatment for 12 years, I learned a little--I have agreed with the answers so far, then you come back to state that the water tester comes by with his little "Hach" (boy am I familiar with those) kit, and tests the water by using a color comparison chart. Now, IMO- the Hach (brand name) test kits are made for many different "field tests" of water so that a daily record of the readings can be taken and recorded. This key here would be to compare today's reading with yesterday's and etc. Then, if you start to show a discrepancy of test reading within a few days, you know that something has caused your water chemical parameters to get out of "normal" condition. I, ME, would not trust anyone with a Hach field test for my potable water. I would either find the nearest lab which can do the proper potable water testing, find out how they want the sample taken, or they may want to take it themselves. Certain potable water chemical testing has to be done on water which is within a certain temperature range, a lot of times this water sample must be kept in a cooler with "blue ice". There are a lot of municipal water labs which will do samples for homeowners for minimal fees, even if the homeowner lives outside say-a city water supply service. I used to have my water from a well which was in the county tested by the local city water lab and the pricing was reasonable. Good Luck, David
Thurman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 07:30 AM   #8
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


I'll add that most soil analysis companies - who perform those annual tests for you, to determine what elements your garden soil may need - do not give you Nitrogen quantities...and seeing as how Nitrogen is the most important element for someone growing a nice green lawn, many people wonder: why not?

A snapshot Nitrogen analysis doesn't tell you much because the presence of nitrogen is so variable and intimately connected via chemical reactions to other compounds that the level could be say 10 at one moment, 50 the next and 3 the moment after that. So reporting it is a waste of time. Thus Nitrogen analysis has to be done over a long period of time to get a true picture.

Not the same thing in water analyses, however. But whoever reported it should be careful about what they report. The "units" are as important as the "numbers"...and one without the other isn't much help.
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 01:37 PM   #9
Water quality'n pump guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wherever I park the motorhome.
Posts: 358
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
"Nitrate" expressed as Nitrogen is different from "nitrates"...

The poster said 26ppm 'nitrates', or IMO the equivalent of about 7ppm nitrates-as-nitrogen.

That is within certain limits...as far as I know anyway.
Yes I know, and I doubt any water treatment guy would test for nitrates without using the proper test kit.

Now I see the guy used a Hach Co Nitrate test, which I have used for 20 years. They are very accurate and used by many labs. No lab ever found errors in my Hach Co test results for anything I used them for and I did Nitrates, Coliform bacteria, sulfates, chlorides, hardness, iron, manganese, pH etc. etc. with Hach Co test kits. A number of times a lab said I was wrong and the prospective customer went to another lab and they agreed with my result. Proving that labs make errors.

I also see where someone says not to have that type test done by anyone other than a lab, or to use that type test yet... here's what the guy probably used as I have (note the Nitrate as N) I also did Nitrites which the MCL is 1 mg/l/100ml sample and the combination of Nitrate and Nitrite not to exceed 10.;

NitraVer® 5 Nitrate Reagent, 25 mL sample, pk/100

  • Nitrate Reagent, NitraVer® 5, Powder Pillows
  • For High Range: 0 - 30 mg/L as nitrate-N
  • Sample Size: 25 mL
  • pk/100
From http://www.hach.com/hc/view.knowledge.base.invoker/VendorProductCode=1403499/NewLinkLabel=FAQs%26frasl%3BTechnical%20Hints/SESSIONID|AzJOemc1TWprM05EQW1aM1ZsYzNSS1FrMUNTekV5 Tmc9PUNERQ==|
__________________
Gary Slusser
23 years in water treatment and well pumps, 13 years on the 'net helping others to help themselves.

Last edited by Gary Slusser; 12-24-2009 at 01:40 PM.
Gary Slusser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 01:49 PM   #10
Water quality'n pump guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wherever I park the motorhome.
Posts: 358
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thurman View Post
Having been in water treatment for 12 years, I learned a little--I have agreed with the answers so far, then you come back to state that the water tester comes by with his little "Hach" (boy am I familiar with those) kit, and tests the water by using a color comparison chart. Now, IMO- the Hach (brand name) test kits are made for many different "field tests" of water so that a daily record of the readings can be taken and recorded. This key here would be to compare today's reading with yesterday's and etc. Then, if you start to show a discrepancy of test reading within a few days, you know that something has caused your water chemical parameters to get out of "normal" condition. I, ME, would not trust anyone with a Hach field test for my potable water.

It sounds as if you didn't do Nitrate or other health related contaminate testing.

The test kit I mentioned is as
Nitrogen, Nitrate As NO3 Color disc/Cadmium reduction test kit. I know of no temperature requirement for it's use; as long as the water is liquid yer good.
__________________
Gary Slusser
23 years in water treatment and well pumps, 13 years on the 'net helping others to help themselves.

Last edited by Gary Slusser; 12-24-2009 at 01:53 PM.
Gary Slusser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 02:33 PM   #11
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Gary:

I don't doubt the accuracy of the test kits.

The OP said the tester reported "26ppm nitrates". My question relates to the reporting issue: is that "26ppm nitrates or "26ppm nitrates as N"?

So are you saying Gary that you suspect he the OP and the tester are reporting "26ppm nitrates as N"?
__________________
“The average American woman is about 25 pounds heavier than she was in 1960...Recognizing obesity as a disease will help change the way the medical community tackles this complex issue that affects approximately 1 in 3 Americans,”
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:02 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


As far as the softener is conserned do NOT buy the WaterCare Trident softener, the dealer should have know that parts for that valve are being discontinued by the manufactuer. (Fleck corp.) The watercare dealer should have know that and should have show you info on the caresoft line of softeners. if you do have that much nitrates hold on to your seat when you get the price of a nitrate remover cause the media is 3 times more expensive than standard water softening media. I would just take my own sample and send it to a lab for them to check for nitrates.
lilh2o3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2010, 11:11 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 194
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Hard Water and Nitrates


Quote:
Originally Posted by lilh2o3 View Post
As far as the softener is conserned do NOT buy the WaterCare Trident softener, the dealer should have know that parts for that valve are being discontinued by the manufactuer. (Fleck corp.) The watercare dealer should have know that and should have show you info on the caresoft line of softeners. if you do have that much nitrates hold on to your seat when you get the price of a nitrate remover cause the media is 3 times more expensive than standard water softening media. I would just take my own sample and send it to a lab for them to check for nitrates.
I agree. Your heath department will give you bottles and you just mail them to a certified lab.

Advertisement

user69544 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Top of Page | View New Posts