Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work?

fillys6 · 04-23-2007, 10:21 AM

I recently moved into a new home that uses a community well for it's water source. The water stats are as follows:

37 grains per gallon
.088 iron content

Will a Sears (Kenmore) or Whirlpool softener be strong enough for this extremely hard water? Thanks for any tips.

brownie · 04-26-2007, 10:47 PM

37 GPG is not hardwater ,Tap water out of the great lakes run around 100 GPG My well runs adout 155

Andy CWS · 04-27-2007, 05:12 PM

I am not sure where Brownie gets the idea that 38gpg is not hard. that is extremely hard, my goodness!

The WQA lists 10.5 gpg as extremely hard and the effects of hardness easily appear at much lower levels.

I live three blocks from Lake Erie and I can tell you nowhere does the lake water ever come close to 100gpg. It is more along the lines of 18-33 depending on weather conditions and locations. Lake wells on Pelee Island, ON, that I have treated are in the range of 22-28 with under 1.5 ppm iron. And 155gpg from a well!? Can you tell me how you treat that?

Now of course, you may be confusing gpg with ppm, which can thrown some people off.

As for your treatment system fillys6. The Kenmore, Sears, whirlpool units are the el chipo models and have a short life expectancy. No water professional water expert would ever recommend them.

Andy Christensen, CWS

brownie · 04-27-2007, 07:53 PM

Classification mg/l as CaCO
Soft 0-75
moderately hard 75-150
Hard 150-300
very hard over 300

Hardness is never stated as gpg, it is mg/l

I have been doing this for 27 years All numbers are from
AWWA 2005 STANDARDMETHODS for water & wastewater.

Ask your community supply what the mg/l is.

Andy CWS · 04-27-2007, 08:53 PM

Well, aren't we touchy

First of all the author clearly stated 37 GRAINS PER GALLON. So your statement that hardness is never stated in grains per gallon, just went down the drain. Pun intended.

Secondly, my friend, you confirmed as GRAINS PER GALLON by actually writing…no wait, let me go and check…be right back…Yes, you too said 37 GPG (grains per gallon). One great lesson in debate is not to say what you don’t mean, especially when you turn around and say it is "never said". Umm!?

I do water analysis everyday and always measure in grains per gallon as the hardness titration solution #3 removes approximately one grain per gallon per drop. Counting the drops gives a relative indication of how hard the water is. That is a first step to finding a solution.

Granted, those working in labs usually use PPM as they have more qualitative equipment and finer tests results. Moreover, the results are often combined with a plethora of other mineral, salts and chemical test results so all are converted to CaCO3 for easy calculation and comparison.

Those in water treatment (in the US), especially for residential applications like for our author, use grains per gallon. Of course there are some exceptions.

Multiplying GPG by 17.1 will reveal hardness in PPM. Or milligrams per liter as you please. Telling the author to ask his community supply what the reading is in mg/l, reveals to me you are not familiar with this calculation.

If it were true as you believed, his hardness would have been 2.16 GPG, which would be ‘slightly’ hard according to the WQA. But in reality his hardness is actually 632.7 PPM as CaCO3. . So maybe your use of the word "never" has some relevance in your background. But never too late to learn.

Both measurements are acceptable, but all users must first be able make note of which is which let alone recognize it when it is written.
But with your 27 years (!), you should know all that, right. So that's why it surprises me that you misdiagnosed the symptoms, leading to a prescription failure and that would have led to a malpractice suit…sorry, I am watching HOUSE at the moment. Nonetheless, I thought you should know this.

Although the AWWA is a renown association and has an excellent record on water issues, the WQA and NSF are really more in the forefront. EPA on public water installations requirements listed NSF certified products. The WQA is a leader in testing verification.

Andy Christensen, CWS

brownie · 04-27-2007, 09:42 PM

1st I didn't confirm anything. I debate ppm,mg/l gpg with residents all day. It is easer to agree than argue.

2 I also titrate using TitraVer & univer3 every day.

3 I do work in a lab every day.

4 I do work in a water treatment plant every day.
And we use mg/l as do all the other plants I know.

5 As for the calculation why know it, don't need it.

6 In all my time running a lab I have never seen a Hardness of 632
mg/l.

7 The EPA. AWWA. and MDEQ set the rules we run by.

Andy CWS · 04-27-2007, 10:21 PM

Fair enough, but you can see my point that when someone states a fact in terms of a specific measurement, it is meant to be dealt with in that measurement or converted to a mutually accepted measurement. I assume you work in a lab or for a municipality.

I don't know what water you are testing but my home has 78 grains per gallon which 1333.80 mg/l of hardness plus 4.5 PPM ferrous iron. Actually, I have tested hardness as high as 132gpg (2257.2PPM). I live in NW Ohio where hardness averages around 35-80gpg. Some very challenging water but manageable.

Andy Christensen, CWS

brownie · 04-27-2007, 10:25 PM

I'm not up on well water. I work at a plant drawing fron the st.clair river. What kind of natural fluoride are you running down there?

brownie · 04-27-2007, 10:53 PM

Hay: on another note. How do I get Iron Bacti. out of my well and keep it out. I thought about a Cl2 drip but it will kill my septic ?

brownie · 04-27-2007, 10:55 PM

Gota go; Shifts over !! 3 day weekend!!

04-23-2007, 10:21 AM	#1
fillys6 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1	Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work? I recently moved into a new home that uses a community well for it's water source. The water stats are as follows: 37 grains per gallon .088 iron content Will a Sears (Kenmore) or Whirlpool softener be strong enough for this extremely hard water? Thanks for any tips.

04-26-2007, 10:47 PM	#2
brownie Newbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 29	Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work? 37 GPG is not hardwater ,Tap water out of the great lakes run around 100 GPG My well runs adout 155

04-27-2007, 07:53 PM	#4
brownie Newbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 29	Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work? Classification mg/l as CaCO Soft 0-75 moderately hard 75-150 Hard 150-300 very hard over 300 Hardness is never stated as gpg, it is mg/l I have been doing this for 27 years All numbers are from AWWA 2005 STANDARDMETHODS for water & wastewater. Ask your community supply what the mg/l is.

04-27-2007, 08:53 PM	#5
Andy CWS Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 86	Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work? Well, aren't we touchy First of all the author clearly stated 37 GRAINS PER GALLON. So your statement that hardness is never stated in grains per gallon, just went down the drain. Pun intended. Secondly, my friend, you confirmed as GRAINS PER GALLON by actually writing…no wait, let me go and check…be right back…Yes, you too said 37 GPG (grains per gallon). One great lesson in debate is not to say what you don’t mean, especially when you turn around and say it is "never said". Umm!? I do water analysis everyday and always measure in grains per gallon as the hardness titration solution #3 removes approximately one grain per gallon per drop. Counting the drops gives a relative indication of how hard the water is. That is a first step to finding a solution. Granted, those working in labs usually use PPM as they have more qualitative equipment and finer tests results. Moreover, the results are often combined with a plethora of other mineral, salts and chemical test results so all are converted to CaCO3 for easy calculation and comparison. Those in water treatment (in the US), especially for residential applications like for our author, use grains per gallon. Of course there are some exceptions. Multiplying GPG by 17.1 will reveal hardness in PPM. Or milligrams per liter as you please. Telling the author to ask his community supply what the reading is in mg/l, reveals to me you are not familiar with this calculation. If it were true as you believed, his hardness would have been 2.16 GPG, which would be ‘slightly’ hard according to the WQA. But in reality his hardness is actually 632.7 PPM as CaCO3. . So maybe your use of the word "never" has some relevance in your background. But never too late to learn. Both measurements are acceptable, but all users must first be able make note of which is which let alone recognize it when it is written. But with your 27 years (!), you should know all that, right. So that's why it surprises me that you misdiagnosed the symptoms, leading to a prescription failure and that would have led to a malpractice suit…sorry, I am watching HOUSE at the moment. Nonetheless, I thought you should know this. Although the AWWA is a renown association and has an excellent record on water issues, the WQA and NSF are really more in the forefront. EPA on public water installations requirements listed NSF certified products. The WQA is a leader in testing verification. Andy Christensen, CWS

04-27-2007, 09:42 PM	#6
brownie Newbie Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 29	Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work? 1st I didn't confirm anything. I debate ppm,mg/l gpg with residents all day. It is easer to agree than argue. 2 I also titrate using TitraVer & univer3 every day. 3 I do work in a lab every day. 4 I do work in a water treatment plant every day. And we use mg/l as do all the other plants I know. 5 As for the calculation why know it, don't need it. 6 In all my time running a lab I have never seen a Hardness of 632 mg/l. 7 The EPA. AWWA. and MDEQ set the rules we run by.

Hard water - 37 gpg, .088 iron content. What softener will work?