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simeltzer 07-09-2014 01:00 PM

Frustrating Toilet Will NOT Stop Running....Occasionally
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I have fixed and installed toilets as a homeowner and diy remodeler, but I seem to have met my match. Hopefully this is something stupid that I have repeatedly overlooked. So.... a couple of weeks ago I noticed that my toilet is filling every so often, just a little bit. My initial assumption was the flapper, which in my case is a flat round gasket (I have an American Standard Champion 4). Although I didn't notice any obvious defects in the gasket, I replaced it anyways, which seemed easy enough. The toilet still ran. I repeated this process a couple times to no avail. Then I got a hold of a cheap OEM flush valve assembly online, so I just replaced the whole thing. I thought that had surely fixed it. NOPE. I then noticed that although the refill tube was nut deep in the overflow pipe, it was possibly just below the level of the water (causing siphoning), so i installed the fluid master adapter to clip the tube above the pipe. This had to work..... NOPE. What am I doing wrong?

SeniorSitizen 07-09-2014 01:25 PM

A couple of questions.

Have you tried closing the supply valve to determine if the water level in the tank stays steady at the desired level?

Does the same symptom occur with the tank lid removed?

Ghostmaker 07-09-2014 01:47 PM

Flush the toilet and put a thin layer of Vaseline on the black plastic lip of the flush valve.
Then move the rubber back and forth to spread it across it's sealing surface.

Fill it up and dye test. If dye enters the bowel your flush valve is defective or you may have a bad seal between it and the upper part of the tank.

You did replace all of the flush valve not just the rubber part right?

simeltzer 07-09-2014 02:07 PM

Fairview - yes, I have tried closing the supply off a couple of times. The water level only seems to drop 1"-2", but not to the level of the valve seal. Also, the systems seem to occur regardless of wether the lid is on or not.

Ghostmaker - I did ultimately replace the whole valve with the factory installed seal. Wouldn't dye testing it be effective without doing the vaseline thing? If it needs vaseline to seal, then it aint working properly, right?

davidblackwood 07-09-2014 04:15 PM

When it comes to problems such as this you need to replace absolutely everything.

This requires a complete re-build

That means you need to replace every seal within the toilet.

You are going to remove the flush valve and flush assembly. You need to replace both of them.

You are going to need to replace the tank to bowl gasket and tank to bowl bolts.

You need to replace the flapper and the toilet flush handle.

You are going to have to do all this because when they don't stop running there is pitting on the parts and they need to be replaced.

When you take the tank off. Take it outside and spray it with the garden hose to remove any sludge.

Re-Assemble it with the highest quality parts.

The flush valve you have there is the cheap fluidmaster from the Home Depot.

Get rid of it

Purchase a Korkey fill valve.

Only by doing all these things can you ensure the toilet will work properly.

Ghostmaker 07-09-2014 05:25 PM

The Vaseline may soften the rubber enough to make it seal.
But from the sound of it your flush valve is defective return it for a new one.

COLDIRON 07-11-2014 06:18 AM

It's rare but I have noticed a couple valve seats defective, it's hard to tell and it's tricky because who would think a plastic flapper seat would wear out? They do . Go buy a korky (as recommended) complete rebuild kit for 25 or 30 bucks and rebuild the whole toilet and quit messing around with all that online stuff and piecemealing parts. Remember never over tighten toilet parts one of the most problems people do. Sorry forgot you have worked on many toilets in the past. Good luck.

simeltzer 07-11-2014 09:49 AM

So..... as to the advice of a rebuild of sorts. I too think/thought this was needed, that is why I went ahead and replaced the entire flush valve assembly with factory installed seal. While I did order this piece on the internet, it is the OEM part from American Standard. I replaced all flush valve seals, as well as tank gaskets and mounting bolts (everything but the fill valve, which I cleaned and reinstalled). I am not sure why I would need to replace the handle. Also, as mentioned, the flush valve is not a cheap fluidmaster part. Although the vaseline may do something, I hate to go through all of this, just to "rig it up." I have found a Korky part that is not the same as the AS, but would fit my toilet and could possibly solve the issue. IMHO I think the seal is the problem and is sometimes seating and sometimes not, thus the intermittent slow leak. I will keep y'all posted, thx again for the help.

eharri3 07-12-2014 09:35 AM

I ran into this problem after I replaced a flapper. I had to keep messing around with the water level. Finally realized where the water line was and when I put it right on the dot the toilet stopped running. Too much or too littler water and it can cause the water to leak out.

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