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Old 06-09-2010, 05:09 PM   #1
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


Stumped on this and looking for advice. We have an AMERICAN STANDARD toilet, 2008. It has a "float style" flush valve whereby a tube fills with water. When the chain is lifted to bring up the flapper, the tube drains and the weight barrel in the front of the tube pulls the float mechanism back down thereby stopping water from emptying into the tank.

The problem is that the tube/float drops back down too soon resulting in only 1/2 tank of a flush.

From advice of a local plumbing store, we confirmed that the "hole" in the tube is not clogged. And the chain has enough slack on it.

Any ideas what might be causing this to fall down to soon? The only way I know how to make this work is to hold down the handle long enough to get all the water emptied -- but try telling a 5 year old to do that!

Thanks so much.


Last edited by cody21; 06-09-2010 at 05:57 PM. Reason: various typos
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


has it just started doing this? there are 3 or 4 diffrent styles of that flush valve for AS water closets, is it possible that someone replaced it with the wrong actuator. they have diffrent degrees of angle. try taping a nickel to the back of the tube for added counter weight. also check that rubber bushing that holds chain in actuator is seated properly

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Old 06-09-2010, 05:40 PM   #3
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


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has it just started doing this? there are 3 or 4 diffrent styles of that flush valve for AS water closets, is it possible that someone replaced it with the wrong actuator. they have diffrent degrees of angle. try taping a nickel to the back of the tube for added counter weight. also check that rubber bushing that holds chain in actuator is seated properly
No - it's been doing this since we bought the house 2 months ago ... (rental) ... the Tenant has been complaining about it and we're just trying to fix it to no avail.

So no idea - but it appears to be the original (2008). We did put a small counterweight to the "tube" (by theupper hole at the top of the tube). I'll check the rubber bushing you mention. Would the water pressure coming from the input water tube possibly be too strong and thereby be pushing it over??? We noticed that there seem to be a pretty decent stream of bubbles/water coming in through that water inlet... Thanks
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Old 06-09-2010, 05:54 PM   #4
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


I guess it could be possible, try deflecting the refill tube as you flush and see if it makes a diffrence. If it does, you could try shutting down supply valve some. (to slow the fill)
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:55 PM   #5
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


can you make hole in the actuator bigger to let more water out faster ??
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:37 AM   #6
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


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can you make hole in the actuator bigger to let more water out faster ??
Is the "actuator" the hollow tube that acts as sort of a ballast? How would enlarging the hole help?

Thanks guys.
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:02 PM   #7
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


In our townhouse that was built in 2005, the Gerber toilets have a water saving "flapper." If the handle is press down and released right away the toilet does a quick flush. The handle has to be held for the "extended" flush. It is all done with the flapper valve. Normally a flapper will float until the tank is empty but on these Gerbers, the flapper doesn't wait for the tank to empty before sealing.
Maybe yours have some type of water saving design.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:11 AM   #8
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


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In our townhouse that was built in 2005, the Gerber toilets have a water saving "flapper." If the handle is press down and released right away the toilet does a quick flush. The handle has to be held for the "extended" flush. It is all done with the flapper valve. Normally a flapper will float until the tank is empty but on these Gerbers, the flapper doesn't wait for the tank to empty before sealing.
Maybe yours have some type of water saving design.
Good thought but not the case here. The "actuator" is definietly falling back down too soon. We're going to try taping a small weight at bottom of the hollow actuator and maybe turn down the water flow a hair.

Thanks
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:19 PM   #9
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


Some American Standard Toilets have a float on the flush valve designed to keep the flapper open until all the water has drained.

Could you have that type that the float is bad or someone remover it?
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:31 PM   #10
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


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Some American Standard Toilets have a float on the flush valve designed to keep the flapper open until all the water has drained.

Could you have that type that the float is bad or someone remover it?
Don't think so .... The 'issue' is that the actuator is dropping too soon - and intermittently. (some times it will stay up until the water level in the reservoir is low (like 2 inches from the bottom), other times it drops/closes when only 1/2 of the reservoir empties.) The only sure way to get more water out of the reservoir is to hold the handle for 5 seconds.
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Old 06-12-2010, 07:17 AM   #11
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


you have the option of changing out the flapper of course. I've run into something similar, there was too much slack in the chain. I'd try shortening the chain, try it and watch it a few times. As you know, too short and it will keep running.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:23 AM   #12
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


For the fun of it, I went to the American Standard site
http://www.americanstandard-us.com/bathroom-products/toilets/
Click on the flushing system, there are eight different ways to flush a toilet
Any idea which system is used in your toilet?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:08 PM   #13
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


wanted to give you all an update on this. We taped a nickle to the bottom of the "actuator" - It's not perfect, but it seemed to help keep the 'actuator' tilted up most of the time to get a full flush. We took a level with us as well. I think the main issue is that the previous owner never LEVELED the install ... the toilet/tank does in fact have a tilt to it from Left to Right (looking at the toilet). So I really think that is what is contributing or causing the 'actuator' to drop too quickly. We could probably loosen the bolts and SHIM the right side of it -- but we're afraid that would (1) break the seal, and/or (2) cause it to wobble, or (3) something worse. So any further repairs/fix would probably best wait until we eventually replace the toilet ..

thanks for all your advice guys.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:47 PM   #14
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


I just replaced my old, constantly-clogging toilet with a new American Standard "Cadet 3" low flush (1.28 gpf) toilet and am seeing the same problem discussed in this thread.

I my case the flush valve has no "actuator" of any kind -- just your typical rubber flapper attached to two ears on either side of the overflow valve and a chain connected to the flush handle.

The chain is adjusted fine (no significant slack and the flush valve isn't leaking).

When I press the flush handle and quickly let go, only about half of the water in the tank flows into the bowl, resulting in a "half" flush. I have to continue holding down the handle for approx. 3-4 seconds to get the tank to fully drain.

The old toilet I just replaced, along with every other toilet I've ever installed, didn't have this problem. The flapper valve has always stayed open "on its own," even after you let go of the handle.

I paid just under $200 for this toilet -- not the world's most expensive, but not exactly a cheapie either. I certainly didn't expect to run into a "design" problem like this.

I guess I'll start by contacting American Standard to hear what they have to say about this issue.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:50 PM   #15
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Flush Valve Closing too soon - only getting 1/2 flush


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... snip ... I guess I'll start by contacting American Standard to hear what they have to say about this issue.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.
Did you verify that it was LEVEL when you bolted it down? Just a thought.

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