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Old 05-10-2014, 02:31 PM   #31
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Dishwasher install - hot water valve replacement


Success! Valve (and dishwasher) installed! Thanks a lot.



It wasn't without some speedbumps though. The old valve came off easily enough, and I was able to cut off a section for the new valve. I think sanding the pipe may have been a mistake though (at least with 200 grit). I got it nice and clean, but when i installed the new fitting it had a slow leak, even after really cranking down on the nut. Eventually I did some googling and read that the grooves made by sandpaper can prevent a good seal between the brass ring and the pipe, and that you shouldn't sand the pipe (steel wool, as was originally suggested, is OK). So I removed the fitting and used a steel scrubber sponge to smooth the sanded surface as much as I could, and reinstalled, again cranking down quite hard. This time, no leaks! Phew!

Putting the dishwasher in took a good number of hours but it's done! This was my biggest home DIY job ever so I'm pretty pleased. Thanks for all the advice!

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Old 05-10-2014, 05:24 PM   #32
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Robo.... Glad you got it.... and apologies from me who said it was fine to use 200 paper lightly.....when you didn't have emery tape/steel wool.

Maybe we have different ideas of lightly, .... but I have used 150 (and probably 100 ) before in a pinch without problem.

Glad you got it though...

Best

Curiosity, how'd you get the new ferule/ring off to resand/polish it after you had tightened it down?.... did you have to cut the pipe or the ring again?
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Old 05-10-2014, 06:11 PM   #33
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NEVER use sandpaper or any abrasive like it to sand copper pipe prior to installing compression or push-to-connect (Sharkbite type) fittings! Clean loose dirt or grime off with cleaner if necessary but do not groove the pipe even a little. I am glad your install worked out after you smoothed out the sandpaper grooves.
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Old 05-10-2014, 07:13 PM   #34
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Curiosity, how'd you get the new ferule/ring off to resand/polish it after you had tightened it down?.... did you have to cut the pipe or the ring again?
I'm betting you know the answer just as well as I. The nut wasn't turned 1 round after all slack was removed is why the ferrule slipped off. If it had been it wouldn't have leaked unless the sand paper was used longitudinally rather than traverse.
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:09 PM   #35
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Just wondering how many people use plumbers grease/silicone on pipe with ferules.
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:13 PM   #36
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I'm betting you know the answer just as well as I. The nut wasn't turned 1 round after all slack was removed is why the ferrule slipped off. If it had been it wouldn't have leaked unless the sand paper was used longitudinally rather than traverse.
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:17 PM   #37
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Just wondering how many people use plumbers grease/silicone on pipe with ferules.
Robo.... Don't know...... that would be dead wrong but that would at least have some degree of merit (not saying to do it)... but I sure seem to run into alot of teflon on the thread....
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Just wondering how many people use plumbers grease/silicone on pipe with ferules.
I do, but not to seal. I use plumber's grease to lube the threads and to make for easier swaging of the ferrule.
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Old 05-10-2014, 10:02 PM   #39
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Robo.... Don't know...... that would be dead wrong but that would at least have some degree of merit (not saying to do it)... but I sure seem to run into alot of teflon on the thread....
I also use plumber's silicone grease on all of my compression connections. It lubricates so the fitting can tighten all the way. PTFE (teflon) tape gets in the way of sealing not helps the seal.

Roboth, good job completing the repair. But in reading your later posts, it became apparent the probable reason your connection leaked is because you did not have the fitting tight enough. The ferrule would not have slid off if it was tight enough to begin with. When installing a compression nut on copper pipe always tighten it until you can not move the valve body when you grasp it and attempt to move it back and forth. If it moves, it is not tight. The most common mistake made by inexperienced "plumbers" is being afraid of tightening a connection too tight. Tighten up those nuts.

Congrats on your successful repair.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:03 AM   #40
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Thanks - it is true that when I removed the fitting after the first unsuccessful install, I was able to slip the ferrule off, and it didn't seem distorted. On the other hand, I was cranking on the nut pretty hard - I had read elsewhere that *overtightening* was a common cause of leaks too, so I was afraid of that.

The second time I installed it I maybe went a bit tighter. I was holding the valve body with a ~7" vicegrip, and the nut with a 10" Knipex pliers wrench, so I had a reasonable amount of leverage.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:03 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHR Plumber View Post
I also use plumber's silicone grease on all of my compression connections. It lubricates so the fitting can tighten all the way. PTFE (teflon) tape gets in the way of sealing not helps the seal.

Roboth, good job completing the repair. But in reading your later posts, it became apparent the probable reason your connection leaked is because you did not have the fitting tight enough. The ferrule would not have slid off if it was tight enough to begin with. When installing a compression nut on copper pipe always tighten it until you can not move the valve body when you grasp it and attempt to move it back and forth. If it moves, it is not tight. The most common mistake made by inexperienced "plumbers" is being afraid of tightening a connection too tight. Tighten up those nuts.

Congrats on your successful repair.
SHR.... never thought of that..... especially probably good where you are in a tight space and difficult to move your wrenches....

However guys.... just a thought... pertaining to setting a ferrule connection and also dropping in a faucet stem rubber o ring (especially when you are not sure you have the correct size o ring).....

Do you ever worry that the plumbers grease might be making just a false temporary seal.... that with time will fail........ ??

Just wondered... as sometimes I kinda worry and check back (caution the customer) to watch.

(Just happen to have that issue in my own 20 year old faucet right now. It's been fine for 2 days, but I am not positive it was correct O ring... and the plumbers grease might be creating the seal temporarily.)

TIA
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:19 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
SHR.... never thought of that..... especially probably good where you are in a tight space and difficult to move your wrenches....

However guys.... just a thought... pertaining to setting a ferrule connection and also dropping in a faucet stem rubber o ring (especially when you are not sure you have the correct size o ring).....

Do you ever worry that the plumbers grease might be making just a false temporary seal.... that with time will fail........ ??

Just wondered... as sometimes I kinda worry and check back (caution the customer) to watch.

(Just happen to have that issue in my own 20 year old faucet right now. It's been fine for 2 days, but I am not positive it was correct O ring... and the plumbers grease might be creating the seal temporarily.)

TIA
I have only used it if O ring was too big to fit easily and on ferrules to make them slide easier. Not to seal.
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:29 PM   #43
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I have only used it if O ring was too big to fit easily and on ferrules to make them slide easier. Not to seal.
ME too.... I'm not using it to seal.... I'd only use it to prevent damage to the O ring and slide it in easier...

My concern is that it might be making a temporary false seal, and really the O ring is not a good seal or the stem riser is not polished or cruded up... and the plumbers graese is just making a temporary seal....

Granted... time will tell me... just wondered if you all had a concern/experience also.
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Old 05-11-2014, 05:44 PM   #44
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FWIW it has a connector on it that was used to secure the hose to the back of the dishwasher during shipping. It might be a strain relief too but it's pretty rigid so I dunno...
Just installed a bosh dishwasher. The plastic deal is for shipping. You're free to remove it.

Make sure you include a hartford loop in the drain line. My bosh had it set up already and yours probably does too but just check it to be sure.

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Old 05-11-2014, 06:21 PM   #45
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No fear of a temporary seal from the silicone grease. Works like a charm to ensure joint is tight and allows easy dis-assembly if necessary down the road.

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