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-   -   Disaster strikes...Broken Toilet HORN! (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/disaster-strikes-broken-toilet-horn-3157/)

J187 07-23-2006 07:11 PM

Disaster strikes...Broken Toilet HORN!
 
I'm removing my toilet to tile the floor in my bathroom of a house I recently bought. I undid one bolt no prob. When I got to the other side, the toilet was wobbling badly. There was a different nut on that side, looked like a regular crowned nut from a hardware store. WHen I pulled the toilet I discovered that the slot where the bolt goes up through the toilet horn was snapped off. The Horn is cracked in another place as well a little bit.

Not being real familiar w/ tolets, it looks like this horn is just one piece extension of the drain pipe and not something that screws on or whatever. WHat do I do?

redline 07-23-2006 10:21 PM

Is the flange (horn) made of metal or plastic?

They make toilet flange repair parts for this situation. Some are called split flanges that slide under the old flange. Others are called repair tabs. Another is a complete ring that screws to the floor with the slots for the toilet bolts. If the floor is in good shape then they have a bolt/screw combination that screws into the wood floor and is threaded on the other end to accept the nuts for the toilet.

Go to you local hardware store and they should be able to give you the best method to remedy your condition.

When you re-install the toilet do not over tighten the bolts or the toilet may crack.

J187 07-24-2006 08:16 AM

Thanks. Am I correct in saying the floor flange is the horn, or the horn part of the toilet itself?

Either way, I thing what you saying is probably accurate, the previous owner must have overtightened the bolts, heard a crack and stopped. Which primed it up nicely for me to come along and undo the other side and the cracked side to completely snap.

The floor flange I am referring to is metal. I can go look around at the plumbing section in my local HICS, but these repair kits you speak of, do they recquire me to cut the old flange off or break it up or whatever?


BTW, I was going to have to do something to extend the flange anyway, I am tiling over the existing tiles and have to make up the distance.



EDIT * So I go for something like this, is it bad that I will be decreasing the diameter of the closet pipe by slipping this inside?

http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51...t--645944.aspx

I don't want to risk backups just to take an easy route to a problem.

Ron The Plumber 07-24-2006 09:11 AM

If it slips inside a 4" pipe then it should work for you, if it's 3" pipe then I would not use it.

This flange you want to use is not code approved under UPC Code, use at your own risk.

Ron

J187 07-24-2006 09:42 AM

Thanks Ron, is there a better choice? What would you do in my situation? I'm open to anything.

tribe_fan 07-24-2006 11:34 AM

This was just on "This old House " yesterday ! (try www.thisoldhouse.com and search toilet flange.

They had some kind of piece that fit underthe flange - and bridged the broken part.

The next option was getting a plumber - because the top flange is connected to the main pipe using melted lead - and the risk of breaking the pipe.

redline 07-24-2006 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J187

The floor flange I am referring to is metal. I can go look around at the plumbing section in my local HICS, but these repair kits you speak of, do they recquire me to cut the old flange off or break it up or whatever?

The repair kits just slip under the old flange if a majority of the flange is still solid. Others repair kits mount on top of the old flange and screw down to the floor.


BTW, I was going to have to do something to extend the flange anyway, I am tiling over the existing tiles and have to make up the distance.

You may be able to use a thicker/taller wax ring if the distance is only the thickness of the new tiles. Or use a flange spacer ring.


EDIT * So I go for something like this, is it bad that I will be decreasing the diameter of the closet pipe by slipping this inside?

Look at the side of the website that you have posted. There is a toilet flange repair ring $8.99 and spanner flange $6.99. These were the type of repair kits that I first spoke of. They slide under the old flange.

http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51...t--645944.aspx

I don't want to risk backups just to take an easy route to a problem.

give it a try...

J187 07-24-2006 01:53 PM

Thanks Redline. I'm going to see if I can find that stainless steal one at my local HICS tonight. I already had bought and planned to use spacer rings, so those should still be good for this. Hopefully all goes well.

redline 07-24-2006 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J187
I already had bought and planned to use spacer rings, so those should still be good for this. Hopefully all goes well.

The spacer ring should be all that you need to secure the toilet with the new tile. The spacer ring should have the slots for the toilet bolts.
Caulk the under side of the spacer before you mount it on top of the old flange. The wax ring should seal the spacer ring but a little caulk between the spacer and the old flange should give you added protection from any water leaks.

Will you be installing the new tile up to the toilet or under it as well?

Installing the new tile under the toilet will give you better support for the toilet.

Ron The Plumber 07-24-2006 09:01 PM

If this was mine, and had access to the pipes below, I'd cut and replace the bend and flange with new bend and flange. Then at that time raise the flange to the proper height.

Is the pipe this flange connects to plastic and cast?

J187 07-25-2006 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber
If this was mine, and had access to the pipes below, I'd cut and replace the bend and flange with new bend and flange. Then at that time raise the flange to the proper height.

Is the pipe this flange connects to plastic and cast?

I fully agree with you. If it were mine and I had access to the pipes, I too would replace it. However, the pipes are behind and intersecting wall and ceiling in the basement, where as a bit of the top is above the ceiling and the rest is behind a wall. The other side of said wall is my water heater and burner. I have no interest in tearing up this wall if I don't absolutely have to. I do share your mentality though - fix and extend all at once, unfortunately, just not a practical solution at this time. Thanks.

Ron The Plumber 07-25-2006 08:33 AM

I need to know if the pipe the flange connects to is it plastic?

Ron The Plumber 07-25-2006 08:55 AM

Nevermind after reading the 1st post, it seems it is cast.

Ok now make sure the surface in clean and dry, you will need to instill a spanner flange, make sure it will hold tight when you go to tighten the toilet down, you will also want to get long toilet bolts, these will make up the extra distance to bolt the toilet with after you do the floor, the bolts have to be secured under the existing flange and the spanner flange, after the bolts are secure, dry set the toilet, this will let you know if after you complete the floor, will the bolts be tall enough, if there tall enough now you can add the flange extensions, put plenty of silicone between each extension, I mean plenty, let the silicone ooze out on the edges, you want to make sure there are no gaps for water to get through at. Now let this dry real good, once dry your ready to tile the floor, remember the top of the flange extension need to be 1/4" above the finish floor, this will allow you to set with just one wax ring, BTW I'm not a fan of rings that have the horns in them, there not code approved here. I like to use wax only.

Ron

J187 07-25-2006 10:10 AM

Thanks ron, yeah I bought the non-horn donut. Good info, thanks. I will be sure to caulk the hell out of the extension rings. I appreciate the help.


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