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Old 10-03-2008, 10:54 PM   #1
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


How's this for plumbing?
Trying to set up the drain system for my darkroom sink.
Im being brave and posting some photos of what IM doing.
Most of the PVC is NOT cemented yet so I can reconfigure if need be.
In the Tub is a Flotec Sump Pump from Home Depot. The sink will drain right into the tub. There is a check valve down in the tub. I put a small piece of PVC on the pump fitst, then added the check valve and continued with the PVC from there. I will have the lid on the tub with 2 holes cut for the pipes when I get to cementing it all together. Im looking for an electrician to come and install outlets for me. Im not planning on using this thing until I have that done.

ok, good...bad...ugly?

Here it goes.......(sorry, bad digi pics at low resolution)










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Old 10-03-2008, 11:35 PM   #2
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


I'm struggling with this one. The drain going into the wall is obviously higher than the bottom of the sink, so I'm assuming that's the reasoning behind the sump pump.

I don't see the reason for doing it that way. Why not conventionally connect it to plumbing beneath the floor in the basement?

There's no trap that I can see...No water seal to prevent sewer gas from coming back out. Not that the trap's water seal would be easily maintained with the sump pump working against it.

ABS and PVC should not be glued together unless the correct glue is used. Not a typical practice.

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Old 10-04-2008, 11:29 AM   #3
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


Don't have the drain from the sink go to the bottom of the pan. I imagine that you are trying to keep the noise level down.

Keep it high, just below the top of the tub and if you want to keep the noise level down then have a 45 and aim it against the tub.

Drains for most applications in the household should never be in the water they are draining into. It could cause a siphon, which in this case would be totally impossible, but it is still a good idea.
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Old 10-04-2008, 03:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin Gardens View Post
Don't have the drain from the sink go to the bottom of the pan. I imagine that you are trying to keep the noise level down.

Keep it high, just below the top of the tub and if you want to keep the noise level down then have a 45 and aim it against the tub.

Drains for most applications in the household should never be in the water they are draining into. It could cause a siphon, which in this case would be totally impossible, but it is still a good idea.

Thanks for the tip. I'll do that. I reconfigured the PVC so it's a straighter line coming out of the tub to where it goes thru the wall. Looks much better than my orig pic that I posted. Man, that PVC cement stinks!!
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:14 PM   #5
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pesphoto View Post
Thanks for the tip. I'll do that. I reconfigured the PVC so it's a straighter line coming out of the tub to where it goes thru the wall. Looks much better than my orig pic that I posted. Man, that PVC cement stinks!!
It's the MEK. Some people actually sniff that stuff to get high.
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Old 10-04-2008, 08:44 PM   #6
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


Quote:
Originally Posted by pesphoto View Post
In the Tub is a Flotec Sump Pump from Home Depot.

Normal sump pumps are rated only for gray water, (normally just rain / ground water).

I am rather concerned about you pumping developer, stop, fixer through that sump pump. I'd be very concerned if your using any solvents or anything flammable that might get into your drain system.

Why can't this be connected into your regular household drain into the sewer system?

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Old 10-05-2008, 12:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Why can't this be connected into your regular household drain into the sewer system?
I asked the same thing and the OP didn't answer.
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:30 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
I asked the same thing and the OP didn't answer.
sorry about that.

.....The sink drain is below the level of where I could connect to the house's sewer line. I'd have to cut into the main sewer line to connect it directly from the sink. And I'm not going to try that.
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Old 10-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #9
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Pretty much every aspect of the job as you did it would be illegal here.

You should have just run a gravity drain around the wall behind the washer/dryer and tied in to your sewer line where it leaves the house. Need vent too.
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by jogr View Post
Pretty much every aspect of the job as you did it would be illegal here.

You should have just run a gravity drain around the wall behind the washer/dryer and tied in to your sewer line where it leaves the house. Need vent too.
there is a vent. you just cant see it in the photos. In the last photo. the pvc that runs to the left and out of the frame goes to a vent that my plumber had installed when he set up my washing machine line that leads to the hous's main sewer line. I cant run a gravity drain as the sink is lower than the sewer line.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:18 AM   #11
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


That's the washer vent. If the sink were gravity drained you would also need a vent at the sink. A sewage ejector basin/pump like you have made also requires a vent at the basin.

From the pics it looks like the center of your sewer cleanout is only 6 to 8" above floor level. You just screw out the cleanout cap and screw in a fitting to pipe into. I'll try to find a pic of the fitting. I'm not there so obviously can't see and measure but gravity drain can usually be made to work with the sewer line that low. Might have had to add an inch or two to the sink legs at most but that would usually make the sink more comfortable to use as most seem too low.

If you stick with your homemade ejector pit you might want to neutralize your chemicals before they go down the drain - or pour them into jugs and dispose of them elsewhere. They will likely eat up the pump.

You really should have gone with a real sewage basin and ejector pump if you couldn't get gravity to work. Your y fitting (by the sink on the ejector line) with a cleanout is facing the wrong way. The whole path of circling back into the wall, going up to the ceiling, over and dropping back down was not necessary and causes difficulties. Why not just pump it around the corner to tap intothe washer drain line? A y fitting should be used rather than a sanitary T where the ejector line connects to the washer drain line.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:34 AM   #12
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jogr, thanks!
Since I took these photos I have changed the pipe config that you see in pic #3. Now it is much more streamlined, no cleanout valve.

From the pics it looks like the center of your sewer cleanout is only 6 to 8" above floor level. You just screw out the cleanout cap and screw in a fitting to pipe into. I'll try to find a pic of the fitting. I'm not there so obviously can't see and measure but gravity drain can usually be made to work with the sewer line that low. Might have had to add an inch or two to the sink legs at most but that would usually make the sink more comfortable to use as most seem too low

This scenerio would be ideal if doable. If you can find a pic of that fitting please let me know. I'm going to measure tonight. Is it ok to not have that big cleanout valve on the sewer line? IM pretty sure I could work in the vent at the sink as my plumber did with the washing machine.

As far as my chemicals. I only do black and white work. And use Sprint chemicals which are much less toxic that most.
-I dont use acidic stop bath chemicals since one doesnt really need them. I use plain water for stop bath, as many photogs do.
-My developer is so diluted with water that I think it would take a really long time to damage the pump.
-Fixer, I will dump into containers and dispose of thru the local waste management facility.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:59 AM   #13
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


Why not just pump it around the corner to tap intothe washer drain line? A y fitting should be used rather than a sanitary T where the ejector line connects to the washer drain line.

If I were to do this, should I use the PVC still or just buy a pump hose and snake it around to a y fitting on the washing machine line?
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:39 PM   #14
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If I were to do this, should I use the PVC still or just buy a pump hose and snake it around to a y fitting on the washing machine line?[/quote]

Use the pvc and use the normal 1/4" per foot downward slope.

As far as the gravity drain possibility: After looking at your cleanout again it looks like your plumber used a sanitary T on it's back for your main stack. Here we would have to use a y but I'll assume that your area is ok with a sanitary T. If your main is 4" PVC then you could get a PVC fitting that is threaded to fit the cleanout like this:
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52...er-601812.aspx

Take out the cleanout cap and thread the fitting in place. Then glue on this 4x4x2 fitting
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52-333-pvc-wyes-and-tees/sanitary-tee-647655.aspx
with the 2" opening either straight up or you could get by rotating the 2" opening 45 degrees from vertical leaning toward the washer drain if you need to minimize the height. (you'll need a short piece of 4" to glue the two female ends together or you might be able to find a 4x4x4 sanitary T with a street end like on page 12 of this pdf http://www.spearsmfg.com/prod_dimens...8_0308_web.pdf).

Glue one of these into the 4" end and screw your cleanout cap back on.
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52...r--635224.aspx

Run the 2" line around the wall to a p trap on the sink tailpiece using appropriate fittings and keeping a 1/4" per foot slope towards the sewer line. (This line can serve both your washing machine and your sink so you don't have 2 parallel lines.) You can T up a 2" vent pipe by the sink and run it up above the sink level and over to hook into the vent pipe on your washer.

Another option would be to put one of these
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52...ee-647655.aspx
or these
http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/52...4--666235.aspx
on the vertical stack just above the existing cleanout but not as high as the drain from your washer. This might end up too high but is worth checking as the sanitary T on the vertical pipe will definitely meet code.

And another option is to carefully remove the existing 4x4x4 sanitary T with cleanout and replace it with a 4x4x4x2 sanitary T with right side inlet as shown on page 13:
http://www.spearsmfg.com/prod_dimens...8_0308_web.pdf.
It can be difficult to do this but it is possible. This option will put your 2" drain line the lowest of all the options at the sewer.

Most places do not allow a sanitary T to be used on a horizontal as yours currently is on your main stack. In most places they are only used on verticals and a Y must be used horizontally. You might want to check to be sure that your codes allow it's use horizontally or you will just be adding to the nonconformance and when it comes time to sell your house you might get hit with expenses to bring it back to code.

Codes vary from place to place so I highly recommend discussing this with your building department before glueing anything.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:46 PM   #15
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Darkroom plumbing critique?


wow, that's a lot to think about. I really appreciate your efforts here.
I'll sift thru all that info and let you know how I proceed.

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