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Old 01-19-2013, 02:14 PM   #16
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Cutting through a gas line


As long as we are telling interesting stories about gas lines....

I was working on the Central Artery project (large highway project) in downtown Boston many years ago. We were doing the geotechnical analysis for the project, so we had to drill lots of holes. One day my field engineer calls me to report that the driller had drilled clean through a 24 inch diameter gas main, and it was leaking badly, and the job was shut down.

OK, so the gas company needs to fix the main. I assumed they would shut the line down and weld a plate over the line. Not so. Turns out that, as has been mentioned, natural gas is only flammable within a certain range of oxygen/gas mixture. There was so much gas that the area surrounding the line was not going to be flammable, at least that is what the gas company said. They excavated the line (it was about 6 or 7 feet down, sent a welder down into the hole with a scuba type tank, and welded the line shut without shutting it off. Neither I nor my field engineer wanted to be within a hundred miles of this operation, it sounded pretty crazy, but the gas company said to relax, they do this routinely.

Now I am NOT recommending this to any homeowner, DIY'er or anyone else, just saying......

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Old 01-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #17
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Cutting through a gas line


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Did you get a permit?
I hope you aren't serious? Im not spending $50 and two days every time I want to cut a pipe or run a wire. I'm going to get exactly 1 permit, ever, to build a garage.

Doesn't anyone else think that the government telling you what you can do in your own home (and charge you to do it) is a little unamerican? Someone wants to tell me what to do in my house, they can pay me 250,000 - then it will be there house, and they can decide what is done to it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:00 PM   #18
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Cutting through a gas line


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman
As long as we are telling interesting stories about gas lines....

I was working on the Central Artery project (large highway project) in downtown Boston many years ago. We were doing the geotechnical analysis for the project, so we had to drill lots of holes. One day my field engineer calls me to report that the driller had drilled clean through a 24 inch diameter gas main, and it was leaking badly, and the job was shut down.

OK, so the gas company needs to fix the main. I assumed they would shut the line down and weld a plate over the line. Not so. Turns out that, as has been mentioned, natural gas is only flammable within a certain range of oxygen/gas mixture. There was so much gas that the area surrounding the line was not going to be flammable, at least that is what the gas company said. They excavated the line (it was about 6 or 7 feet down, sent a welder down into the hole with a scuba type tank, and welded the line shut without shutting it off. Neither I nor my field engineer wanted to be within a hundred miles of this operation, it sounded pretty crazy, but the gas company said to relax, they do this routinely.

Now I am NOT recommending this to any homeowner, DIY'er or anyone else, just saying......
They didn't weld on blowing gas. What they would have done is put a boiler plug into the hole, clamp it, let the gas dissipate to a safe level, then weld the plug in place.

If gas levels in the atmosphere are above the upper explosive limit, somewhere in that gas cloud is a gas concentration within the explosive limits,
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:09 PM   #19
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Cutting through a gas line


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Originally Posted by tibberous View Post
I hope you aren't serious? Im not spending $50 and two days every time I want to cut a pipe or run a wire. I'm going to get exactly 1 permit, ever, to build a garage.

Doesn't anyone else think that the government telling you what you can do in your own home (and charge you to do it) is a little unamerican? Someone wants to tell me what to do in my house, they can pay me 250,000 - then it will be there house, and they can decide what is done to it.

I am serious. You need a permit to replace a gas-fired appliance. Here we do anyway. Someone wants to tell you what to do in your house, because you are working with a flammable, explosive and potentially dangerous for not just yourself, but people that live in your area. Not to be rude, but you are uneducated when it comes to dealing with hydrocarbon gasses. As a plumber/gasfitter myself, it doesnt bug me when someone wants to change out a sink themselves, move water/sewer fixtues, etc- in the end if its done wrong theres a flood, sewage backup or it doesnt work as designed-in the end not a big deal. When dealing with GAS it can be life threatening.

It's worth getting the inspection as they can pick up other things that you may not even remotely be aware of.

Example.
Combustion air, flue gas analysis, flow rate of gas to your appliance. Have you clocked your appliance? Do you know if its getting the proper BTU to the burners?

I'm not trying to pick on you or be rude, ill do everything I can to help- but some rules such as permits are there to protect you, your block and future home owners
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:14 PM   #20
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Cutting through a gas line


I like the idea that if I was to cut off my hand the government forces the hospital to sew it back on, even if I have no money or can not speak English. I am willing to pay so people that do not work or what ever can get their hand sewed back on. If I choose to cut off my hand the government should have no say in that. It is my hand. If someone want to cut off my hand I think the government should stop them. So in you working on your house with no permit is only endangering you and your property, have at it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:41 PM   #21
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Cutting through a gas line


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I am serious. You need a permit to replace a gas-fired appliance.
Actually I was just tearing out - thank god too, it would have been complicated as hell to replace.

The part I don't like is that the law is basically unenforceable, since inspectors / police aren't just allowed to walk in your house (forth amendment and all) Now the government is getting court orders to let tax assessors into peoples houses - because they wrote laws / tax codes that can't work without taking away peoples constitutional rights.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:15 PM   #22
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Cutting through a gas line


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Originally Posted by BC Plumber View Post
To the original poster, not you mike, sorry for the confusion.


4 (1) An individual must not perform regulated work in respect of a gas system or gas equipment unless the individual
(a) holds a certificate of qualification issued under this Part,
(b) is authorized to perform regulated work in respect of gas without holding a certificate of qualification,
(c) has successfully completed a training program recognized by a provincial safety manager,
(d) holds another certificate of qualification to perform limited work in respect of gas under the Act,
(e) is a homeowner acting in accordance with section 24, or
(f) is permitted to do so in accordance with section 5 of the Safety Standards General Regulation.

24 (1) A homeowner may apply for an installation permit to perform regulated work with respect to gas equipment in a fully detached dwelling if

(a) no person is being paid to do, or assist the owner in doing, the work, and
(b) no part of the dwelling is rented to any person.
(2) Section 26 does not apply to a homeowner who performs regulated work under this section.


For liability. If anything happens with that furnace or piping without an inspection your home insurance is most likely void. Typically $50-$150 for the permit, which includes an inspection by an inspector with a gas license.
Does not apply in my area, and there are a lot of areas that rule does not apply to.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #23
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Cutting through a gas line


Quote:
Originally Posted by tibberous View Post
I hope you aren't serious? Im not spending $50 and two days every time I want to cut a pipe or run a wire. I'm going to get exactly 1 permit, ever, to build a garage.

Doesn't anyone else think that the government telling you what you can do in your own home (and charge you to do it) is a little unamerican? Someone wants to tell me what to do in my house, they can pay me 250,000 - then it will be there house, and they can decide what is done to it.
Or the fact that there are those that think everyone has to comply with the same rules and reg's.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:53 AM   #24
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Cutting through a gas line


BC, where are you ?
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:26 AM   #25
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Cutting through a gas line


Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Plumber View Post
To the original poster, not you mike, sorry for the confusion.


4 (1) An individual must not perform regulated work in respect of a gas system or gas equipment unless the individual
(a) holds a certificate of qualification issued under this Part,
(b) is authorized to perform regulated work in respect of gas without holding a certificate of qualification,
(c) has successfully completed a training program recognized by a provincial safety manager,
(d) holds another certificate of qualification to perform limited work in respect of gas under the Act,
(e) is a homeowner acting in accordance with section 24, or
(f) is permitted to do so in accordance with section 5 of the Safety Standards General Regulation.

24 (1) A homeowner may apply for an installation permit to perform regulated work with respect to gas equipment in a fully detached dwelling if

(a) no person is being paid to do, or assist the owner in doing, the work, and
(b) no part of the dwelling is rented to any person.
(2) Section 26 does not apply to a homeowner who performs regulated work under this section.


For liability. If anything happens with that furnace or piping without an inspection your home insurance is most likely void. Typically $50-$150 for the permit, which includes an inspection by an inspector with a gas license.
I can repair my lines as well without a permit....but I do need a permit to swap out the wh....it's not much...like $20....basically covers the inspectors time to come out and make sure I hooked up the gas right have have the flue done correctly
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:10 PM   #26
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Cutting through a gas line


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I can repair my lines as well without a permit....but I do need a permit to swap out the wh....it's not much...like $20....basically covers the inspectors time to come out and make sure I hooked up the gas right have have the flue done correctly
Here we do not even need that. That is why I like my city. Then again, I had to fix the previous home owner add-on wiring issues. Wish I had time to redo our gas piping downstairs, due to they came off the 1" with 3/4" for the stove, about 12 feet where it enters the home, for a run of about 25 feet.

One of my many still need to do projects.

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