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Old 04-12-2012, 10:01 PM   #16
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Considering Tankless HWH... Reality Check Please!


I have. Doesn't seem any worse than the solid minute or two of cold water I get presently.

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Old 04-12-2012, 10:03 PM   #17
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I called the utility company about this and they said that they have no information on what size line I have coming in. However, they did tell me that my meter is the "small" size they offer, which is capped at approximately 42,000 BTU. I haven't climbed the roof to check on the BTU rating for the central heat, but I'm not hopeful that I could get it all on this meter.

They said that they could *probably* upgrade my meter size *maybe for free*, but the lady on the phone was really unsure. She said she'd have to assign the case to a worker to come blah blah... something... blah. Either way, I'm less than 1,000 ft from a major gas pipeline. She said that *usually* service upgrades are done for free, but couldn't tell me what the largest gas line I could get here was either.
Better talk to a planner from the utility company as it doesn't sound like the person you talked to has much of a clue, or maybe you just didn't understand them. 42 MBTUH is ridiculously low for any gas meter, your central heat, if gas, is probably 60-80 MBTUH. The "major gas pipeline" that you live by is probably a transmission line and has no affect on the service to your house. You'll have a distribution line running in front of your house, or possibly behind it in the alley if you have one.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:03 PM   #18
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Considering Tankless HWH... Reality Check Please!


Really?

So. . . someone takes a shower before you, heats the water in the line. You go to take a shower : "Oh cool the water is already warm"

*gets in shower*

"YOOOWWWW THAT'S COLD"!!!!!!

*shakes head* "What the? It's warm again?"



That would tick me right off.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:06 PM   #19
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Better talk to a planner from the utility company as it doesn't sound like the person you talked to has much of a clue, or maybe you just didn't understand them. 42 MBTUH is ridiculously low for any gas meter, your central heat, if gas, is probably 60-80 MBTUH. The "major gas pipeline" that you live by is probably a transmission line and has no affect on the service to your house. You'll have a distribution line running in front of your house, or possibly behind it in the alley if you have one.
My mistake. She said 420k.

I remember thinking to myself a 150k heater wasn't that big of a deal unless the HVAC was over 200k. Checking the stickers on the HVAC and dryer are on my to-do list now for sure.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:11 PM   #20
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Really?

So. . . someone takes a shower before you, heats the water in the line. You go to take a shower : "Oh cool the water is already warm"

*gets in shower*

"YOOOWWWW THAT'S COLD"!!!!!!

*shakes head* "What the? It's warm again?"



That would tick me right off.
Considering that the HWH and the shower would be within a foot or two of each other on opposite sides of the wall, I can't imagine it being a very big sandwich.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #21
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Hmmm. Greek to me. Lady on the phone said something about .25psi, I think. Does that mean anything intelligible?
Yes. It means you have 7" water column service. You probably have a 200 series meter, which is good for 200,000 btu's (200 MBTUH). I work for a gas utility company north of you, but I believe our systems are similar (although we take much, much better care of ours). I'm all for DIY, even when it comes to gas. But, do you research first and ask questions, even if you think you know the answers.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:20 PM   #22
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Yes. It means you have 7" water column service. You probably have a 200 series meter, which is good for 200,000 btu's (200 MBTUH). I work for a gas utility company north of you, but I believe our systems are similar (although we take much, much better care of ours). I'm all for DIY, even when it comes to gas. But, do you research first and ask questions, even if you think you know the answers.
Hmmm. It's stamped "275 CFH" and "CL-250" and "5 PSI" on the plate. But I have no idea if that's accurate or not.

Google search reveals a table that seems to indicate I'd need to know the piping length to get any useful information from it.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:20 PM   #23
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Considering that the HWH and the shower would be within a foot or two of each other on opposite sides of the wall, I can't imagine it being a very big sandwich.
It doesn't matter how close they are. What makes the difference is the time delay on the flow sensor.

How long does it have to sense water flow before it starts the sequence of igniting the burner. 4 seconds? 5 seconds? That doesn't seem like much, until it's blasting you in the back when you thought it was warm.


Not trying to talk you out of it, but you asked for a reality check.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:25 PM   #24
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Hmmm. It's stamped "275 CFH" and "CL-250" and "5 PSI" on the plate. But I have no idea if that's accurate or not.

Google search reveals a table that seems to indicate I'd need to know the piping length to get any useful information from it.
CL-250 is the model
275 CFH is 275 cubic feet (of gas) per hour
5 psi is the maximum operating pressure. (it probably has MAOP after 5psi)

Can you post a pic of you meter? If its a CL-250, I'm not sure it will supply 400+ MBTUH, unless it's 2 psig.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:19 PM   #25
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CL-250 is the model
275 CFH is 275 cubic feet (of gas) per hour
5 psi is the maximum operating pressure. (it probably has MAOP after 5psi)

Can you post a pic of you meter? If its a CL-250, I'm not sure it will supply 400+ MBTUH, unless it's 2 psig.
I'll get back to you in the morning on that one.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:43 PM   #26
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Considering Tankless HWH... Reality Check Please!


Benny, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. It's been a crazy last couple of days. Hopefully these photos show you what you needed to see.





In case you need to zoom in on the dials: http://i.imgur.com/quAVK.jpg

Edit: Odd, imgur links died. Fixing those now.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:28 PM   #27
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Considering Tankless HWH... Reality Check Please!


Bumping. Just got the yearly water quality report from the water district (still waiting on temperature). Water looks rather hard. Will I need a filtration and/or softening unit to use a tankless under these conditions?








Thanks in advance guys. Always a huge help!
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:13 PM   #28
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In case you were still thinking about it.

The rest of the reality check.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...m_medium=email
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:27 PM   #29
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Still interested. Definitely.

Part of these studies that make it difficult for me to get real-world numbers is that they all assume professional installation costs. I know time is money, but it isn't always worth $100/hr or even $50/hr. That makes it difficult to figure out what a self-installed payback period would be.

Thanks for that study. :D Great article!
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:12 AM   #30
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I saw it and thought of your thread. If I'm understanding the article, there are reasons to justify buying one, just not from an efficiency stand point. Not a big enough improvement to expect much of a payback from it.

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