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Old 07-10-2012, 06:08 PM   #1
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Confused about toilet flushing features


Hi, I'm a first time poster, long time pooper.

I've had the same Kohler Devonshire toilet for a long time. I found the model number and it's K-4269, in case anyone's familiar.

My issue, which has gotten worse over the years, is that my stools are too large to even exit the bowl sometimes. When they do exit the bowl, they'll get stuck and the toilet will plug up anyhow. It's not at all a toilet paper issue. I guess I am a freak of nature (I've already been to a gastroenterologist for this, and they had no help, in fact he said it was a good sign).

So, I'm wondering if a toilet with a more powerful flush can help push something through that's too big, or if the only solution is a bigger hole for the substance to go through. I've looked at Kohler and American Standard's websites. They have too many options. I see that American Standard has a toilet with a 2 3/8" trapway both in the Champion 4 and Champion Pro. But my toilet I have now is 2". Would that extra 3/8" really make a difference.

And then there also different flushing technologies. Kohler has a Pressure Lite and a Power Lite. American Standard seems to just advertise that theirs are more powerful by design due to a larger flush valve. I'm just generally rather confused and don't know much about this subject.

I'm open to all ideas on this. This has started causing family fights and it's generally unpleasant to deal with this on a daily basis.

Thank you!

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Old 07-10-2012, 08:44 PM   #2
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Nothing to be embarrassed about, what I'd recommend is a Flushmate pressure assisted toilet. As America gets larger (read obese) so do the stools. The Flushmate uses pressure and a slightly different design to assure a complete flush nearly every time. google it to find a distributor near you. It's one of the best purchases WE ever made.

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Old 07-10-2012, 09:20 PM   #3
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Confused about toilet flushing features


Take a look at these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaWDH16SqVs

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/v...=1452773060001

current record is 29 golf balls.

The top rated flushers are the American Standard Champion 4 and Kohler Cimarron K3609.

We got the Champion 4.
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Old 07-10-2012, 09:58 PM   #4
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Confused about toilet flushing features


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Originally Posted by goosebarry View Post
Take a look at these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaWDH16SqVs

http://www.americanstandard-us.com/v...=1452773060001

current record is 29 golf balls.

The top rated flushers are the American Standard Champion 4 and Kohler Cimarron K3609.

We got the Champion 4.
I've actually seen the American Standard videos before, and to be honest, my reaction was: I wish they would test the stool of someone like myself instead (I could handle the visuals)! It is impressive, but the objects they use aren't as wide as stools I have. The toilet I have now can handle large amount of toilet paper; it just can't handle large stools.

Before you bought the Champion 4, did you look at the Champion Pro, and if so, what did you think about the differences? There was a video on the American Standard Facebook page explaining the differences (not sure how if the Facebook link will work, but here it is):

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3570608148485

They sound largely the same; however, the Pro is 1.28 GPF while the 4 is 1.6 GPF. The Pro is supposed to also rinse the bowl better. Also, the Pro uses metal in the shank (not sure what that is?) and trip lever (is that the flusher?), whereas the 4 is made of plastic in those parts.

I like the part about the Pro being built of metal, but I would think the 1.6 GPF would make the 4 more powerful; although they claim the Pro is just more efficient with water (although I've heard that story before).

I tried researching the Kohler you mentioned, and Kohler's web-site is a bit harder to navigate. They publish the trapway and flush valve size of the lower end Cimmaron (2 1/8" and 3" respectively, less than the Champion), but they don't advertise the sizes on the model you listed, which seems to be the higher end "Class 5" Cimmaron. There's also an interesting parallel between the higher end Cimmaron and Champion; both of the higher end models (or what I assume are the higher end models, the "Class 5" models for Kohler, and the Champion Pro for American Standard) actually use less water per flush and both advertise that they clean the bowls better.

I wish this were like computers, where I have a better grasp on all these different factors.

I think I would tend to go with American Standard over Kohler because of the trapway size and also because of having had a bad experience with a Kohler toilet seat in the past, but knowing the details between the Champion 4 and Champion Pro, which would you buy if you were in the market again?

Thank you again for your help.
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Old 07-10-2012, 10:17 PM   #5
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Confused about toilet flushing features


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Originally Posted by DangerMouse View Post
Nothing to be embarrassed about, what I'd recommend is a Flushmate pressure assisted toilet. As America gets larger (read obese) so do the stools. The Flushmate uses pressure and a slightly different design to assure a complete flush nearly every time. google it to find a distributor near you. It's one of the best purchases WE ever made.

DM
Hi, there. Thank you very much for the information. I came across their web-site and was a little discouraged to see that it looks like they have a recall right now and that people have been injured by the tanks bursting. I'm still very interested in the type of technology, though. And I see that both American Standard and Kohler have some toilets with their technology. I'm curious to know how they compare to toilets like the Champion or Cimmaron that try to maximize the use of gravity.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:15 PM   #6
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Sorry to post so much but in my research I've come across some more information by way of a site called terrylove.com The person who runs that site thinks a lot of Toto toilets (especially the Guinevere) which have a cyclone flushing technology, but it seems to only have a 2 1/8" trapway.

I also found a thread on his site where he recommended Caroma USA toilets which apparently have a 4" trapway. Although, I've seen other threads that say they aren't so good because of having a small "water spot" which means a messier toilet bowl. But a 4" trapway sounds pretty good!
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:18 AM   #7
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Confused about toilet flushing features


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Before you bought the Champion 4, did you look at the Champion Pro, and if so, what did you think about the differences? ...
They sound largely the same; however, the Pro is 1.28 GPF while the 4 is 1.6 GPF. The Pro is supposed to also rinse the bowl better. Also, the Pro uses metal in the shank (not sure what that is?) and trip lever (is that the flusher?), whereas the 4 is made of plastic in those parts.

I like the part about the Pro being built of metal, but I would think the 1.6 GPF would make the 4 more powerful; although they claim the Pro is just more efficient with water (although I've heard that story before).

I tried researching the Kohler you mentioned, and Kohler's web-site is a bit harder to navigate.
We were replacing a 3.8 GPF toilet and figured 1.6 GPF was saving enough. The Pro just didn't have as many reviews as the Champion 4 and Cimmaron, which were very highly rated in a few publications.

I picked American Standard over Kohler for 3 reasons: I'm 50 and have always had an American Standard toilet; as you mentioned the web site was definitely friendlier and more informative; and we had already decided on an American Standard tub/shower. We essentially were able to upgrade to the Champion 4 for free, because the web site offered free LTL shipping at $1500 and our shopping cart with the Cadet 2 came to just under $1500 with shipping.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:01 AM   #8
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Confused about toilet flushing features


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Originally Posted by swingerofbirch View Post
Hi, there. Thank you very much for the information. I came across their web-site and was a little discouraged to see that it looks like they have a recall right now and that people have been injured by the tanks bursting. I'm still very interested in the type of technology, though. And I see that both American Standard and Kohler have some toilets with their technology. I'm curious to know how they compare to toilets like the Champion or Cimmaron that try to maximize the use of gravity.
I got the kit, it was a few minutes fix and we've owned ours for many years and never a problem. search "flushmate" HERE and see the thread. Don't let that discourage you, most products have problems, and you have to consider a few hundred problem units out of MILLIONS is pretty good odds. And their customer service is exceptional. Your call though, keep plunging or be happy!

DM
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:15 AM   #9
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Confused about toilet flushing features


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Originally Posted by swingerofbirch View Post
I wish they would test the stool of someone like myself instead (I could handle the visuals)! It is impressive, but the objects they use aren't as wide as stools I have. The toilet I have now can handle large amount of toilet paper; it just can't handle large stools.
I have always thought that. Flushing lots of rounded objects is quite different than flushing logs.

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