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-   -   Can I pump sewage ejector pump into horizontal clean out? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/can-i-pump-sewage-ejector-pump-into-horizontal-clean-out-131888/)

mnschu 01-29-2012 10:46 PM

Can I pump sewage ejector pump into horizontal clean out?
 
Hi Everyone,

Let me first explain what I am trying to do, and then my questions.
In my back yard I have a building, about 20' x 16'.
This building has electricity, but no plumbing.
I would like to add a bathroom to this building.
My problem is how do I install the sewage drain?
This building is about 20' from the back of my house, and the grade is flat.
My house sewer drains from the front of my house down to the city sewer.
I just moved to the house last year, it was built in 1955 and single story.
I presume my house sewer drains toward the street, which is at a lower grade.
There is a cleanout outside my front door to the right.
I can't see any easy way to do a gravity sewer drain, as the trench would have to go on the side of my house, and around the front. There is concrete all the way, and mature vegetation and a few trees.

My current thinking is to use a sewage ejector pump.
On the side of my house, I have another cleanout. This one is horizontol and about 6 inches above grade. The kitchen sink is the only thing before this cleanout. I believe it also connects to the vent here, but need to go into my crawlspace to confirm. This horizontal cleanout would be easy for me to pipe to from a sewage ejector pump, making the job easier.
A few questions:

1. Does this sound like a viable plan? Can I pump to a cleanout like this? Any problem with the sewage being pumped accidentally going into the sink?

2. If it is possibly, any grade requirements from the pump to the cleanout? It would be flat for about 20 feet, then I need to go down a little, then under a concrete walkway for about 3 feet, then up to cleanout. Is this OK?

3. Any other advice or possible other ideas?

4. If this will work, where is the best place to purchase a sewage ejector pump and what are quality brands/models?

5. What type of pipe should I use, PVC or ABS?

Thanks for your help in advance,
Michael

Alan 01-29-2012 11:26 PM

You need to check with your local authority on that.

Around here they don't want us tying into the building drains, only connections should be made outside to the sewer line.

They also want us to have a 12" vertical rise off of the sewer line before the pump connection is made.

This probably varies a lot from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

The guy here is a :censored:

mnschu 01-30-2012 04:22 AM

Thanks for your feedback, I will check for any code compliance issues.
But are there any technical problems with what I am proposing, in other words, will it work?

TheEplumber 01-30-2012 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnschu (Post 838914)
Thanks for your feedback, I will check for any code compliance issues.
But are there any technical problems with what I am proposing, in other words, will it work?

I assume you want a toilet in the out building and you want to connect to a clean out that appears to be for a kitchen sink- a 1.5 or 2" pipe. The pump will over load it the kitchen line.
It will not meet any code that I'm aware of.

AllanJ 01-30-2012 09:24 AM

You may not unscrew the cap off of a horizontal cleanout and insert a hose such as from a washing machine or ejector pump loosely in there.

(Washing machine drain hoses may not be sealed onto the drain pipe.)

mnschu 01-30-2012 04:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attached is a pic of the clean out I am talking about.
It looks like it is about 2 1/2" to 3" diameter.
I can peek through a vent in my foundation, and it appears to go to a big cast iron pipe, much bigger in diameter. To get better view I plan to go into my crawlspace. A vent to the roof is also here.

If the pump will overload this clean out, can I use a macerating pump and use a smaller pipe to connect to clean out?

Or can I put a check valve from sink to this drain?

Based on feedback so far, this idea may not work.
So, if I need to trench, how do I find the best location to hook up to?
In front of my house, in the ground, is a clean out.
Any easy way to find out how deep the waste pipe is and direction?
There is probably close to 60 feet of concrete in between, how wide of cut is needed to lay the pipe?

Thanks,

TheEplumber 01-30-2012 06:21 PM

If your area will allow it(mine won't)- go in the crawl, cut in a minimum 3" wye. Extend the 3" through your foundation and run to the out building. Check your elevations first.
As for the clean out- remove the cap and measure the riser by sticking a tape down it. You can determine it's direction by shining a flashlight down the riser. You should see the drain at the bottom.

PlumbDumb 01-30-2012 06:28 PM

Ejectors should have their own, dedicated waste lines (2" minimum/3" better) that are tied into your houses "main line" as close to the house trap as posable. Basically when something goes wrong with a ejector pump, its not pretty. You want to isolate the pump line from any other fixtures that may "back up". If your sink drain backs up down hill from the ejector, then your ejector tries to pump 20 gallons of raw sewage into that blocked line, its going to blast out of your sink at a few gallons/minute.

Also ejectors are guaranteed to fail eventually. They fail in the off postion which means that by the time you realize the pump has given out, you will need to fish it out of 20~30 gallons of muck to change it. If your going through the trouble of digging a hugh trench, it may be easier/cheaper to get a small cesspool (or if your in a code free area a dry-well) for your shed. This way it's a traditional gravity system with no pump changes every time a tampon gets flushed

Alan 01-30-2012 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber (Post 839523)
If your area will allow it(mine won't)- go in the crawl, cut in a minimum 3" wye. Extend the 3" through your foundation and run to the out building. Check your elevations first.
As for the clean out- remove the cap and measure the riser by sticking a tape down it. You can determine it's direction by shining a flashlight down the riser. You should see the drain at the bottom.

To add to this : If the fitting doesn't go straight down (2 way clean out) then it's a wye, and if you stick your tape down too far you'll probably get it stuck.

:):whistling2:

mnschu 01-31-2012 05:10 PM

Thanks, I never thought about going through my foundation, how easy is this? A few questions if I do this:
1. How do I cut hole for 3" pipe? I have a Bosch SDS+ Rotary Hammer drill, will that work? Any recommended bit? Or I need a core driller? This will not cause damage to foundation?
2. How do I check elevation before making the hole cut? This is all in my crawl space and my outbuilding is in my backyard, about 25 feet away from where I would cut into.

TheEplumber 01-31-2012 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnschu (Post 840530)
Thanks, I never thought about going through my foundation, how easy is this? A few questions if I do this:
1. How do I cut hole for 3" pipe? I have a Bosch SDS+ Rotary Hammer drill, will that work? Any recommended bit? Or I need a core driller? This will not cause damage to foundation?
2. How do I check elevation before making the hole cut? This is all in my crawl space and my outbuilding is in my backyard, about 25 feet away from where I would cut into.

1. you can put a hole through the concrete 2 ways: hammer drill a mess of 1/2" diameter holes around the pipe and chisel out the center or core drill. Size the bit 1" larger then your pipe. Either method should not hurt your foundation.
2. Use a builders level to find the elevation of the pipe and the assumed elevation at the other end. Allow 1/4"/ft for grade. Double check all this to be sure you will have the fall needed.
When you lay out the concrete hole, don't forget to calculate the pipe grade. Hate to see you run level pipe :wink:
And like I said before- my area frowns on tying a second building to an existing system like this. Best to check that out.


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