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Old 06-01-2008, 07:58 PM   #16
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Exactly. You are the man. I have been doing this for 79 years, before that I used to make cars for another 53, then before that I was a bagger at walmart for 85 years. And I used to walk uphill to school, both ways, in the snow, and in the summer it snowed to.

In a nutshell, call the city and see what they want, their are options available. And to be honest, I would not think that they would let just anyone mess with domestic water. You will more than likely have to be a plumber, and you could probably also have to have other requirements. Some towns have their own boys who do stuff. Cicero, IL has their own group of mobsters, ahem, their own company who only touches their mains. We had to do some cut and caps on some six and four inch cast iron mains, and the "best" that those thugs could bet me was a quarter pipe running water. That was fun, cutting, getting soaked, then fighting a cap on their while the water is spraying out, and tightening it up while the pressure builds back up again, then coming up and freezing solid. Every town is different. Every town is a bit funny, phone first, then plan for material and stuff.

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Old 06-01-2008, 08:58 PM   #17
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Server. You seem to be taking something out on me. I think it may be because I mentioned being a Water Department employee for a while. I served my Apprenticeship in Local 50 Plumbers and Steamfitters, Toledo Ohio back in 1970. I took 5 years off and worked for the Water Department before moving to Florida and then Arkansas where I am back at the trade. I have worked in refineries, hospitals and all sorts of new construction. Also a State certified welder. I can work with any type plumbing material including glass and lead. As I stated, always check with your local code office. Work with the problems here instead of becoming one.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:13 PM   #18
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Server. You seem to be taking something out on me. I think it may be because I mentioned being a Water Department employee for a while. I served my Apprenticeship in Local 50 Plumbers and Steamfitters, Toledo Ohio back in 1970. I took 5 years off and worked for the Water Department before moving to Florida and then Arkansas where I am back at the trade. I have worked in refineries, hospitals and all sorts of new construction. Also a State certified welder. I can work with any type plumbing material including glass and lead. As I stated, always check with your local code office. Work with the problems here instead of becoming one.
I am just teasing.

I always love it when someone says that they have been doing something for 39 years. Sorry, no harm no foul. We have the same advice, I happen to have hands on as a bottom man for 12 years installing this stuff, and the last 4 have been a foreman. I now moonlight between ATM Machine Tech in the cold weather and Sewer and Water in the warm weather.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:50 PM   #19
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No harm done. My 5 years as a Water Service Tech for the City taught me a lot. The rules in Ohio were not "bendable". They were written the way they had to be done and most the contractors knew better than to ask to evade them. I spent many years as a foreman on different type work and had the headaches that go with the territory. One more year and I hang up the wrenches and work in my wood shop.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:49 AM   #20
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No harm done. My 5 years as a Water Service Tech for the City taught me a lot. The rules in Ohio were not "bendable". They were written the way they had to be done and most the contractors knew better than to ask to evade them. I spent many years as a foreman on different type work and had the headaches that go with the territory. One more year and I hang up the wrenches and work in my wood shop.
Yes, the wood shop sounds nice. I have a start on the requirements, what I need is warm weather and the wood shop. And to get away from this Chicago lifestyle.
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:57 AM   #21
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Spoke with the inspector today which is tricky in this town because they don't really seem to want to inform a home owner what's required. He said type L is what was required and the silver solder connections. I asked about compression fittings he acted like I was from mars. Thanks for all the info. I have only done short runs with all the ends terminating above ground so this is a learning experience. Thanks again
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:03 AM   #22
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Hard copper underground... Nice. I think I would look harder, maybe call a plumbing outfit in the area to verify.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:14 AM   #23
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He said soft or solid made no difference to him. I need some soft to help with gentle curves one roll may do it and the rest stick copper. Other towns out here require soft rolls to reduce or avoid joints.
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:29 AM   #24
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Odd, just to throw it out there, I fixed a water line leak one time that was caused by a dent in hard copper that was buried underground. There was a rock pressing on it, and apparently the water going by that dent eroded the pipe there. Maybe it is pure poo-poo, I don't know, but I have heard the same thing about reaming the copper. I would not use hard copper underground personally, and that brings me back to the coupling method, if you are using soft copper, then silver solder is not the answer, there are couplings made for it, either flare or compression. One of those two has to be good enough. If it is flare, you will need a sizer, and a flaring pin, and two 3' pipe wrenches to tighten. Compression just needs the copper to be sort of round, you don't need it perfectly round to get the flaring pin in it, but the compression nut has to fit over it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:59 AM   #25
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I have had that same experience with hard copper myself. I might run all soft. What is strange to me is I have see work done by the water dept of San Francisco and they use compression fittings for buried city work. This town is about 30 miles away and the guy looked at me like I was out of my mind when I suggested it. I need to get it done without debates with him so it will go in with silver.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:21 AM   #26
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WOW, Type L underground? I guess I just got too used to Ohio's codes. Up there it was Type K (soft) for all underground and flare fittings. i would think you must live in an area where the ground never freezes. Movement of the earth would bend the hard copper or break a soldered joint (even silver solder). Sorry, enough about "how we did it", just go by Local Codes.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:28 AM   #27
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"How we did it" helps plenty when trying to understand what and why an inspector wants you to do it one way or another. So don't hold back on that. Thanks again for all the help.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:31 PM   #28
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You should really get in touch with a plumber or something and ask him how they would do it in the city. The inspector may have been a building inspector and not the sewer and water inspector. I find it hard to believe honestly that hard copper would be used underground, but at this point we are beating a dead horse. Now the question is, do you know how to silver solder? It is more like brazing, and it is almost an art, I have only met a couple plumbers who could do it. Especially without a leak, come to think of it, I haven't met too many plumbers that could do anything without it leaking. :D
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:02 PM   #29
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I know a journeyman plumber that works at SFO he is up to speed on most stuff I am betting he will be willing to help for the hour or so needed to make the connections. I just didn't want to call him unless I needed to. If it was simple soldering or even compression fittings I was pretty sure I could handle it without much trouble. I have replumbed several buildings all above ground. I am going to double check on the compression fittings before I make the call. Makes no sense SF water dept uses compression fittings and I can't use them in a residential setting.

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