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Buried Supply Line ?

4K views 28 replies 5 participants last post by  Bob10 
#1 ·
Hi curious which unions are approved for connecting buried lengths of soft copper pipe from a water meter. Also to they have to be wrapped in something? I have only used single lengths but this house is about 150' from the meter. Any help will be appreciated.
 
#5 ·
Thanks that is what I was hoping it is a long run and if I remember correctly a 2" line I am not sure what lengths that comes in, in soft rolls I am betting it costs plenty. The last 3/4"L roll I bought I got for $120 a few months ago I think it was old stock with old pricing. No chance of getting lucky twice
 
#8 ·
It is for a friend her placed burned down and the rebuild contractor is MIA from what I understand. I am going out tomorrow to start the trench for the water and try to find the original gas line. I will check the suppliers for prices on pipe on Tuesday. I am really surprised on the size of the line. I have 6 units running on 1 1/2" and this job is a single family house.
I will find out more tomorrow. Thanks again for the responses.
 
#9 ·
When I was a Water construction tech in Ohio, the code was type K soft copper underground and the only approved joints were Mechanical Couplings which are flared. No solder or threaded joints were allowed. This is another of those "check local code" questions.
 
#11 ·
Add another "check local code" requirement. In Ohio, 150' was the change over from 1-1/2 to 2" on service lines, even single family dwellings. It cured the problem of customers complaining of low water pressure. That size meter and piping is not cheap. Customers were responsible for buying the meter from the Water Department for anything over 5/8".
 
#12 ·
You will either need to use a compression coupling or a flare coupling. Compression are easier to work with, although you still need to have the copper round, which on 2" without a "copper sizer" good luck. You can use two hammers, one as a backing, and tap it round with the other one. Call the city and see what is required by them. I have done this in alot of towns, and from my experience, every town thinks that they know it all, and prefers one or the other. You cannot solder soft copper, it would have to be silver solder, which is like brazing.
 
#14 ·
The compression fittings that I am talking about have a metal keeper ring inside of them. The towns that do allow them justify it by saying that if anyone ever digs through them, they will pull the copper out of the corp, and not the corp out of the main. Then again, there are other towns that don't like them because they don't trust them. Personally after having assembled probably 1000's of these things, getting 2" flare copper tight underground, in a ditch, with no room to work, tight enough not to leak, is not an easy task. Flaring 2" is not an easy task. Compression is much easier, but you need to see if the town will be ok with it. I don't care about what "most areas" allow, I am telling you to find out what YOUR AREA allows and giving you my input on what is more user friendly. MOST towns think that they have it all figured out, and that they know everything about everything, so it doesn't matter what we think, it is what they think.

I go from one town using no shear mission couplings because they are great, and another town doesn't like them. Another town likes to cut out a section of sewer and cut in a tee, another will allow an insert a tee to be cored in. Chimney seals on manholes in one town, not necessary in another. Some towns will go right along with doing a pressure tap through a water main valve, others want a tee cut in. Some will require a corp be directly tapped into the water main, others want a saddle. EVERY one of the inspectors in these towns will look at you like a donkey for even suggesting that there is another way, even if the circumstances would warrant the other one.

I just love the towns that don't allow couplings at all. They think that you can get 2" copper in continuous rolls, good luck finding it in anything longer than 60' lengths. Even if they did make it, which last I checked they don't, it is bad enough rolling out as it is.
 
#15 ·
I am used to changing codes with the area. In 35 years I have done work in 3 States and they are as different as night and day. The thing is, they have their rules and you cannot get over it. I always state to check with "local" codes as I did in my second post in this question.
 
#16 ·
Exactly. You are the man. I have been doing this for 79 years, before that I used to make cars for another 53, then before that I was a bagger at walmart for 85 years. And I used to walk uphill to school, both ways, in the snow, and in the summer it snowed to.

In a nutshell, call the city and see what they want, their are options available. And to be honest, I would not think that they would let just anyone mess with domestic water. You will more than likely have to be a plumber, and you could probably also have to have other requirements. Some towns have their own boys who do stuff. Cicero, IL has their own group of mobsters, ahem, their own company who only touches their mains. We had to do some cut and caps on some six and four inch cast iron mains, and the "best" that those thugs could bet me was a quarter pipe running water. That was fun, cutting, getting soaked, then fighting a cap on their while the water is spraying out, and tightening it up while the pressure builds back up again, then coming up and freezing solid. Every town is different. Every town is a bit funny, phone first, then plan for material and stuff.
 
#17 ·
Server. You seem to be taking something out on me. I think it may be because I mentioned being a Water Department employee for a while. I served my Apprenticeship in Local 50 Plumbers and Steamfitters, Toledo Ohio back in 1970. I took 5 years off and worked for the Water Department before moving to Florida and then Arkansas where I am back at the trade. I have worked in refineries, hospitals and all sorts of new construction. Also a State certified welder. I can work with any type plumbing material including glass and lead. As I stated, always check with your local code office. Work with the problems here instead of becoming one.
 
#18 ·
I am just teasing. :wink:

I always love it when someone says that they have been doing something for 39 years. Sorry, no harm no foul. We have the same advice, I happen to have hands on as a bottom man for 12 years installing this stuff, and the last 4 have been a foreman. I now moonlight between ATM Machine Tech in the cold weather and Sewer and Water in the warm weather.
 
#19 ·
No harm done. My 5 years as a Water Service Tech for the City taught me a lot. The rules in Ohio were not "bendable". They were written the way they had to be done and most the contractors knew better than to ask to evade them. I spent many years as a foreman on different type work and had the headaches that go with the territory. One more year and I hang up the wrenches and work in my wood shop.
 
#21 ·
Spoke with the inspector today which is tricky in this town because they don't really seem to want to inform a home owner what's required. He said type L is what was required and the silver solder connections. I asked about compression fittings he acted like I was from mars. Thanks for all the info. I have only done short runs with all the ends terminating above ground so this is a learning experience. Thanks again
 
#24 ·
Odd, just to throw it out there, I fixed a water line leak one time that was caused by a dent in hard copper that was buried underground. There was a rock pressing on it, and apparently the water going by that dent eroded the pipe there. Maybe it is pure poo-poo, I don't know, but I have heard the same thing about reaming the copper. I would not use hard copper underground personally, and that brings me back to the coupling method, if you are using soft copper, then silver solder is not the answer, there are couplings made for it, either flare or compression. One of those two has to be good enough. If it is flare, you will need a sizer, and a flaring pin, and two 3' pipe wrenches to tighten. Compression just needs the copper to be sort of round, you don't need it perfectly round to get the flaring pin in it, but the compression nut has to fit over it.
 
#25 ·
I have had that same experience with hard copper myself. I might run all soft. What is strange to me is I have see work done by the water dept of San Francisco and they use compression fittings for buried city work. This town is about 30 miles away and the guy looked at me like I was out of my mind when I suggested it. I need to get it done without debates with him so it will go in with silver.
 
#26 ·
WOW, Type L underground? I guess I just got too used to Ohio's codes. Up there it was Type K (soft) for all underground and flare fittings. i would think you must live in an area where the ground never freezes. Movement of the earth would bend the hard copper or break a soldered joint (even silver solder). Sorry, enough about "how we did it", just go by Local Codes.
 
#28 ·
You should really get in touch with a plumber or something and ask him how they would do it in the city. The inspector may have been a building inspector and not the sewer and water inspector. I find it hard to believe honestly that hard copper would be used underground, but at this point we are beating a dead horse. Now the question is, do you know how to silver solder? It is more like brazing, and it is almost an art, I have only met a couple plumbers who could do it. Especially without a leak, come to think of it, I haven't met too many plumbers that could do anything without it leaking. :D
 
#29 ·
I know a journeyman plumber that works at SFO he is up to speed on most stuff I am betting he will be willing to help for the hour or so needed to make the connections. I just didn't want to call him unless I needed to. If it was simple soldering or even compression fittings I was pretty sure I could handle it without much trouble. I have replumbed several buildings all above ground. I am going to double check on the compression fittings before I make the call. Makes no sense SF water dept uses compression fittings and I can't use them in a residential setting.
 
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