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-   -   Bucket in concrete for full bath in basement? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/bucket-concrete-full-bath-basement-25751/)

Leoskee 08-25-2008 08:17 PM

Bucket in concrete for full bath in basement?
 
I had a contractor stop by for a quote on intalling plumbing for a full bath in my basement. I mentioned upflush toilet systems and he told me that I would be better off cutting into the cement, placing a "bucket" with a pump and tying it into my sewer line.

Has anyone heard of this before? What are the pros/cons? Someone mentioned to me that when you cut into the concrete in your basement you can end up with water problems coming up through the area that was cut.

Thanks.

concretemasonry 08-25-2008 09:58 PM

Have him give you a certified, written, fixed price proposal guaranteeing that it will meet all all codes and modern standards. For security, take his/her spouse and first born until the job is approved by everyone possible and the Pope. - The only problem you will have is if you are not lucky enough to have a building code to protect you.

Termite 08-25-2008 10:09 PM

It sounds like he was suggesting some sort of redneck sewage ejector pit. Don't do it. He's no plumber, that's for sure. Agreed, it would never meet code.

A good plumber can tap into your under-slab building drain with no problem. If your sewer is higher than your basement slab, you'd have to have a sewage ejector pump installed, and that is no big deal. It would cost more though.

Cutting out some concrete to access or route plumbing is really no big deal. If the new concrete is properly installed, water infiltration should not be a major issue.

majakdragon 08-25-2008 10:28 PM

Unless the toilet will have a quarter moon cut out on the door, forget this idea.

KHouse75 08-25-2008 10:29 PM

Most likely he's just referring to a sewer ejector. I can't tell you what my guys call a sewer ejector.

If your sewer lines are below your basement slab like mentioned above, I'd recommend tying into your sewer line directly. If it's up above then some type of sewer ejector will be needed.

An upflush toilet is a special toilet that has the sewer ejector included in some way. It's just in a nice enclosure to match the color of the toilet. There are various setups for these toilets.

If water was to come up where the concrete was cut, it would also come up around the edges where it meets the wall, around existing pipes and through cracks. If that happens, you have other problems requiring a sump pump or two with battery backup or a backup city water driven sump pump.

Leoskee 08-26-2008 04:58 AM

None of the homes on my block have sump pumps. The sewer line in my basement runs the length of my house. Starting at my far left it begins with the 1/2 bath in the kitchen. This starting point is about 6 ft high in a crawl space. It then connects to the upstairs bathroom and kitchen line about 5 ft away. A foot further and the sewer line makes a 90 degree drop towards the floor. At this point it is about a foot and a half off of the ground. This line continues to taper down towards the outside of the house. At the lowerst point it is about about 4-5 inches off of the floor. (my numbers are rough estimates)

When he explained the set up it sounds like a sump pump type of design. He said that the water from the shower/sink/toilet would collect in the "bucket" and when full a pump would shoot the waste up to the main sewer line. He said that all of the plumbing would be underground so that everything would be level to the floor, unlike an upflush toilet.

Does that still sound like a ghetto set up or is he just using the wrong terminology?

buletbob 08-26-2008 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leoskee (Post 151861)
None of the homes on my block have sump pumps. The sewer line in my basement runs the length of my house. Starting at my far left it begins with the 1/2 bath in the kitchen. This starting point is about 6 ft high in a crawl space. It then connects to the upstairs bathroom and kitchen line about 5 ft away. A foot further and the sewer line makes a 90 degree drop towards the floor. At this point it is about a foot and a half off of the ground. This line continues to taper down towards the outside of the house. At the lowerst point it is about about 4-5 inches off of the floor. (my numbers are rough estimates)

When he explained the set up it sounds like a sump pump type of design. He said that the water from the shower/sink/toilet would collect in the "bucket" and when full a pump would shoot the waste up to the main sewer line. He said that all of the plumbing would be underground so that everything would be level to the floor, unlike an upflush toilet.

Does that still sound like a ghetto set up or is he just using the wrong terminology?

He is referring to a sewage injection pump. I have one in one of my homes it works fine, never had any problems with it. BOB

Leoskee 08-26-2008 09:37 AM

Thanks. Anyone have an idea of how much it would cost to do a job like this? He told me he can do the labor part for $7,000. In all it would be around 10K to complete the bathroom.

majakdragon 08-26-2008 10:32 AM

I am confused as to how all the plumbing can be underground when the discharge and vent would be sticking up from the holding tank. My thoughts are that if he is going to tear up concrete for the tank, why not just cut trenches and run the drain piping. Overall, the tank is going to cost you as much, if not more, than running it under the concrete. Plus no pump going bad later.

47_47 08-26-2008 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leoskee (Post 151861)
A foot further and the sewer line makes a 90 degree drop towards the floor. At this point it is about a foot and a half off of the ground. This line continues to taper down towards the outside of the house. At the lowerst point it is about about 4-5 inches off of the floor. (my numbers are rough estimates)

When he explained the set up it sounds like a sump pump type of design. He said that the water from the shower/sink/toilet would collect in the "bucket" and when full a pump would shoot the waste up to the main sewer line. He said that all of the plumbing would be underground so that everything would be level to the floor, unlike an upflush toilet.

You are going to need an ejector pump and basin. Do you or any of your neighbors have any basement water issues. If yes consider having him intall a sump pump before finishing the basement.

Leoskee 08-26-2008 12:08 PM

Majakdragon, Im not sure what you mean by "why not just cut trenches and run the drain piping".

47_47, no sump pumps in any of my neighbooring homes or water issues that I am aware of.

47_47 08-26-2008 12:26 PM

Leoskee,

I don't have a sump pump or water issues either, but just a point to consider before spending the money on a basement remodel only to have it damaged by water.

I'd also get a quote from a few other licensed and insured contractors to compare pricing. Try to get them to be as specific as posssible with the manufacturer and model of the ejector pump (system) to get an accurate cost (apples to apples) comparison.

buletbob 08-26-2008 12:32 PM

the unit is usually installed on the other side of the new bathroom wall location, like in a closet. the price of the sewage injection pump should be around $400.00 What is your code for under ground piping. here we must use cast iron. his price seams steep? but then again don't know what is involved. BOB

majakdragon 08-26-2008 12:50 PM

An upflush toilet such as Saniflow has a holding tank above the foor and behind the toilet. It also has two additional openings for a tub/shower and a sink. The piping is then run up and connected into your drainage system and operated by a macerating pump. No cutting of concrete. If you install a holding tank with a pump, it will be in the concrete fllor with two pipes (waste and vent) coming out of the top and connected the same way as the Saniflow. You will have concrete cut and if you have a high water table, this could cause water problems in the basement. If you are going to cut the concrete (for a holding tank), my suggestion would be to cut trenches, install the drainage piping and connect directly to your current drain piping under the concrete floor. This would eliminate the pump included in either of the other two systems.

buletbob 08-26-2008 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majakdragon (Post 151979)
An upflush toilet such as Saniflow has a holding tank above the foor and behind the toilet. It also has two additional openings for a tub/shower and a sink. The piping is then run up and connected into your drainage system and operated by a macerating pump. No cutting of concrete. If you install a holding tank with a pump, it will be in the concrete fllor with two pipes (waste and vent) coming out of the top and connected the same way as the Saniflow. You will have concrete cut and if you have a high water table, this could cause water problems in the basement. If you are going to cut the concrete (for a holding tank), my suggestion would be to cut trenches, install the drainage piping and connect directly to your current drain piping under the concrete floor. This would eliminate the pump included in either of the other two systems.

I would agree with you but the problem he stated was the existing sewer line runs about 4" above the basement floor. not below.


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