Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-19-2012, 07:47 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Share |
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Bondo- The green handle valve in the third picture. We are on a well here.
That green handle valve is in the line that comes over from the well water system at the other end of the building about 40 feet away. There is of course a pressure tank that the well pumps into. The pressure tank there cycles between 30 & 40 pounds as I recall. The well pump kicks on at the 30 Lb. low & shuts off at the 40 lb. high. There is nothing else on that line as far as I know. It's been this way & working fine until this past weekend.

I did put a air gauge on the schrader valve of the expansion tank & it shows 25 pounds, which now I think is good because that tank should be at about the same operating pressure as the well pressure tank, I would think. You are probably correct that that green handle ball valve is not the proper fil valve. But it's what I have had for 25 years trouble free. This is a real head scratcher. The guy at the hardware store here also told me it sounds like a bad fill valve or expansion tank problem.

On that rust you see on the side of the large rectangular bodied valve, I believe to be from occasional release from the air release valve that is threaded into it on top. I looked at it closely & can't see a exterior signs of mal function. Just that line of green corrosion on the side the way you see it. Don't know what to do at this point. I will need to continue this tomorrow. I have to sign off for the evening as I have some other business to take care of. I will sleep on it. If you need more info, please ask me for it. I wish I had a way to check these parts. Maybe I should just buy a new expansion tank & that small valve thats attached to it & see what happens. After all it is 25 years old.

Watertown, NY. I had to go to watertown many years ago on business. Flew up, from Newark airport in NJ. It was mid. septemner. That night it snowed & all I had on was a shirt & no jacket with me. Froze my butt off. It was also the first time I saw cars with ten foot tall poles on the bumpers so you could see what was on the other side of the snow pile on the road. Your a better man than me. Too cold, too much snow. But the fishin must be great. Thanks!

P.S. If I drain down the water to bring the pressure down to around 12-15 pounds, then use the green handle valve to throttle in enougf refill water & allow the pressure to climb would that work. What Im saying is to open the valve just a crack & full open. Does that make any sense to you?

maddog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 02:23 AM   #17
Thread killer
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 288
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog1 View Post
Bondo- The green handle valve in the third picture. We are on a well here.
That green handle valve is in the line that comes over from the well water system at the other end of the building about 40 feet away. There is of course a pressure tank that the well pumps into. The pressure tank there cycles between 30 & 40 pounds as I recall. The well pump kicks on at the 30 Lb. low & shuts off at the 40 lb. high. There is nothing else on that line as far as I know. It's been this way & working fine until this past weekend.

I did put a air gauge on the schrader valve of the expansion tank & it shows 25 pounds, which now I think is good because that tank should be at about the same operating pressure as the well pressure tank, I would think. You are probably correct that that green handle ball valve is not the proper fil valve. But it's what I have had for 25 years trouble free. This is a real head scratcher. The guy at the hardware store here also told me it sounds like a bad fill valve or expansion tank problem.

On that rust you see on the side of the large rectangular bodied valve, I believe to be from occasional release from the air release valve that is threaded into it on top. I looked at it closely & can't see a exterior signs of mal function. Just that line of green corrosion on the side the way you see it. Don't know what to do at this point. I will need to continue this tomorrow. I have to sign off for the evening as I have some other business to take care of. I will sleep on it. If you need more info, please ask me for it. I wish I had a way to check these parts. Maybe I should just buy a new expansion tank & that small valve thats attached to it & see what happens. After all it is 25 years old.

Watertown, NY. I had to go to watertown many years ago on business. Flew up, from Newark airport in NJ. It was mid. septemner. That night it snowed & all I had on was a shirt & no jacket with me. Froze my butt off. It was also the first time I saw cars with ten foot tall poles on the bumpers so you could see what was on the other side of the snow pile on the road. Your a better man than me. Too cold, too much snow. But the fishin must be great. Thanks!

P.S. If I drain down the water to bring the pressure down to around 12-15 pounds, then use the green handle valve to throttle in enougf refill water & allow the pressure to climb would that work. What Im saying is to open the valve just a crack & full open. Does that make any sense to you?
There should be a regulator on the line feeding from your well pressure tank, limiting the pressure of the water going to your boiler. If your expansion tank is ok, then when you drain it down and lower the pressure to 15 psi, you can close that valve, it doesn't need to be open. If you find the pressure dropping after you close that valve, you have a leak somewhere.
__________________
You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two.
Canucker is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Canucker For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-20-2012)
Old 12-20-2012, 06:34 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lansing,MI
Posts: 169
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Fill trol tank is a combo pressure reducing valve and expansion tank.Adding or removing air to tank adjust system pressure.Ive found bad tanks by giving the sides a few taps with screw driver handle.Should sound hollow in lower part.Kinda like the old school way of finding a stud in the wall.
HVACTECH96 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to HVACTECH96 For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-20-2012)
Old 12-20-2012, 08:53 AM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


HVACTECH96- Thanks. I did manage to do a search this morning on the Fill-troll tank. And yes, it is a combo system that eliminates the need for a pressure regulating fill valve. There is a rectangular valve body about 3 0r 4 inches long, mounted directly to the top of the expansion tank. I have a cut away drawing of that special combo valve. Inside it has seals, springs, filter screens, etc. After 25 years of service, I would think it's on it's way to a happier place.

I will try that little tap test you suggested to see what I hear. Based on the drawing I found this morning, and all the help member BONDO gave me last night, and now your information here, I'm ready to take the plunge & replace the expansion tank & the valve that is mounted to it. I don't see anything else that could be wrong, because all the info I have, is pointing to a system that can not regulate the pressure caused by heated water.
Thank you for you help here.
maddog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:12 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Lansing,MI
Posts: 169
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Also suggest replacing air vent at same time.They're cheap and you'll have to drain down the unit anyway.
HVACTECH96 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to HVACTECH96 For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-20-2012)
Old 12-20-2012, 09:36 AM   #21
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


HVACTECH96- Thanks. I was just thinking that maybe I will throw in a new vent as well. And I wasen't sure about having to drain down the system, but I guess I will have to in order to do the job. It's a real pain doing the drain down, but I need to do it. System is in the basement & I don't have a pump to pump it out or a floor drain. I have to fill buckets & go up about 10 steps up into the yard to dump it. Thanks!
maddog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:54 AM   #22
Master General ReEngineer
 
Bondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chaumont River, Ny.
Posts: 3,682
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by maddog1 View Post
HVACTECH96- Thanks. I was just thinking that maybe I will throw in a new vent as well. And I wasen't sure about having to drain down the system, but I guess I will have to in order to do the job. It's a real pain doing the drain down, but I need to do it. System is in the basement & I don't have a pump to pump it out or a floor drain. I have to fill buckets & go up about 10 steps up into the yard to dump it. Thanks!
Ayuh,... Attach a garden hose to the boiler's drain spigot, 'n run the other end outdoors to drain down as much as yer gonno need to drain...
Bondo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bondo For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-20-2012)
Old 12-20-2012, 10:49 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Hi Bondo- Thanks. Yeah, Im going to use my garden hose to drain it down. Let gravity do most of the work. Last week I put in a new drain valve because I did not like the corrosion on the one that was there. At least I got that right. Did not think I would be needing it. Hey, ya never know
maddog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 09:46 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,930
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


The pressure measured at the air valve (Schrader valve) of the pressure tank aka expansion tank doesn't mean the system will work properly unless the pressure tank is properly calibrated. To do this, first you have to relieve all pressure from the system being protected (here, the boiler), maintain at least 5 PSI in the pressure tank, and wait for water in the pressure tank to exit. (Alternatively dismount the pressure tank from the system) Now you set the pressure tank to the desired pressure. Usually this is a few PSI less than the system normal lowest pressure, but follow the instructions for the pressure tank and your boiler.

Then you turn the system back on, adding water to the boiler and bleeding air from the boiler as needed.

Water enters or leaves the pressure tank until the air pocket inside has a pressure equal to the system pressure.

If per chance the pressure tank gets too much water in it, maybe because you bled the air out of the pressure tank during normal operation, the remaining air cushion could become very small while still registering what you consider normal pressure yet the system will operate erraticaly including have water exit the relief valve. Recalibrate the pressure tank as described above in this case.
__________________
Stop wasting time re-adjusting the pattern. Have several lawn sprinklers, one for each pattern.

Last edited by AllanJ; 12-20-2012 at 09:56 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AllanJ For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-21-2012)
Old 12-21-2012, 02:08 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 118
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


AllanJ- Thanks for your advice & information.

I also wish to thank Bondo-HVACTECH96 and all others who came to my rescue. I now have the high boiler pressure problem resolved. Here is what happened:

My expansin tank is an Amtrol tank. This tank is what Amtrol calls a "Fill-Trol or EXtrol" system. Mounted to the top of this tank is a prerssure regulating valve. This setup eliminates the need for a separate regulator valve on the water fill line. This high pressure was causing my pressure relief valve at the boiler to release small amounts of heated water. At first I thought the relief valve was bad as it was original to the 25 year old system. So I changed the relief valve, but the problem continued.

Having limited technical knowledge about boilers & heating systems I came here with my problem & learned that I could possibly have a bad expansion tank or pressure regulating valve or a problem in both. With the great advice I got here, I started to close in on the problem. I also called amtrol tank's tech. dept. & they helped out as well. The problem was in that tank mounted regulator valve. After 25 years of service it was just plain worn out. While the tank tested good, I went ahead anyway & replaced that as well. I was surprised to find out that the tank,valve and model number was still being made & sold after 25 years. I went down to our local plumbing supply company, and they had everything I needed right on the shelf. Problem solved. Boiler operating at proper system pressure, no relief valve blow off. Good for another 25 years! Who knows.

Wish to thank everyone for their help here. I was sure I could do the work to get it fixed, but just did not know how to identify the problem. Thank you everybody!
maddog1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2012, 07:35 AM   #26
Master General ReEngineer
 
Bondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chaumont River, Ny.
Posts: 3,682
Default

Boiler pressure relief valve problem


Ayuh,.... yer welcome...

Bondo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bondo For This Useful Post:
maddog1 (12-23-2012)
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pressure Relief Valve Leaking new_DIY Plumbing 10 10-04-2012 10:24 PM
TPR valve leaking - closed system? Hidden check valve? Pressure mystery dustout Plumbing 0 09-23-2012 05:36 PM
pressure relief valve leaks f9 flier Plumbing 21 06-14-2011 06:55 PM
Boiler pressure troubles jduffett HVAC 2 12-12-2010 07:15 AM
Boiler Relief Problem dgr68 HVAC 62 12-11-2010 10:41 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.