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Old 09-24-2006, 09:23 PM   #31
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


Pour the bucket of water in bowl fast, if it goes out with a big woosh, it's not the bowl.
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:27 PM   #32
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


I did pour it fast at first....it flushed.

when you say bowl do you mean rim or below the bowl?
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:33 PM   #33
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


Below bowl.

It's the rim, do this take the bucket of water, take lid off tank, flush the toilet like normal, now pour the water in the tank at a steady rate as the tank empties. Now tell us what happened for this test.
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:48 PM   #34
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


It flushes.
I thought it would because it will with just one extra inch or less of water in the tank.

What makes the trap open?....pressure, right?
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:50 PM   #35
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


This is why I questioned the rim idea because if there is extra water in the tank, it still has to go through the rim and perhaps get slowed down but just less than one extra inch of water and it flushes.
Strange.
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Old 09-24-2006, 09:53 PM   #36
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


How about a picture posted of the inside of your toilet tank.
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:09 PM   #37
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


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How about a picture posted of the inside of your toilet tank.

...ok, now you're messing with me.

What in the world do you need a picture for?

I can't get you a picture....what do you want to know?
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:12 PM   #38
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


Trying to help, want to see the setup you got in there.
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Old 09-24-2006, 10:39 PM   #39
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


I just read that they started manufacturing 1.6 gallon toilets in the 80s and this is a 79....although I could have sworn I have read that gerber made an "ultraflush 1.6" in the 70s....I'm confused. I suppose I could go measure the water but it's getting late.

There is a fluidmaster in there....which is what was in there before I replaced it. I have the CL about an inch above the pipe which causes the assembly to be slightly taller than the tank, but seeing as how the inside of the lid is not flush with the top of the tank it doesn't cause a problem. The top of the assembly is clear...I just thought it was strange that there would be a pipe in there tall enough for the CL on the assembly...which the package says should be one inch above the top of the pipe and this cause the assembly to come up past the top of the open tank.
Anywho....the CL is one inch above the pipe and the water level which is supposed to be one inch below the pipe and the line is marked and visible on the tank...is now set to be one eighth to one quarter inch below the pipe because the normal water line is not enough pressure to flush the toilet and I do not know if it is volume or speed that is the issue or both. If it is the rim, it's speed but if it's something below the bowl then it's a combination of speed and volume or rather not enough speed to cause enough volume fast enough....even if the speed and volume is correct....it's just not opening it up because there is something wrong with it somewhere else.

So I'm thinking it could be either.

unless it takes the toilet longer to flush from the time I push the handle to the time it gurgles and when the flapper drops...because if that takes longer than normal....then it is DEFINITELY a problem in my mind. There's not too many things that could slow it down.....but there seems to be plenty of reasons....although I'm not well acquainted with what they are.....that the water just won't drop all the way out. To me, it seems that could be many things. I don't know much about traps but doesn't it seem that if pressure opens a trap and the trap is impaired that more water will open it and this could be why extra water will flush the toilet when there may be nothing in the rim at all.

Just a thought.

I thought to time it would rule out once and for all...the rim.

Although now I can't say how much water is in it to compare it to another toilet. I don't know if it's a 1.6 and it's getting late but I will check it out tomorrow. I do know that it is a Gerber made in May of 1979.

Last edited by melanie; 09-24-2006 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 09-24-2006, 11:40 PM   #40
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


ok...I'm back after looking at a primitive version of a toilet diagram which shows the bottom portion. Why is this so hard to find?

Am I to understand that there uis no closing at all below the bowl....only the small amount of water that settles in the bowl....so essentially there is nothing to force open. Can someone explain to me what else is down there? Are there any other openings or fixtures that have some working concept behind them that could be malfunctioning?
Just trying to rule anything else out before I try to clean out the rim again.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:10 AM   #41
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Am I to understand that there uis no closing at all below the bowl....only the small amount of water that settles in the bowl....so essentially there is nothing to force open. Can someone explain to me what else is down there? Are there any other openings or fixtures that have some working concept behind them that could be malfunctioning?
Just trying to rule anything else out before I try to clean out the rim again.
The only moving parts are located in the tank. The trap is just a tunnel that the water flows thru. The trap maintains water inside the bowl to keep sewer gas from entering the home. The water from the tank needs to have enough volume and speed to create a siphon action to remove the material from the bowl. If you get a good flush using the bucket then the bowl and trap are clear.

look at the website below and click on "click to flush" - this will show you how a toilet flushes. Read all the pages for this article and you will understand how the toilet works.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/toilet1.htm


Try flushing with the lever and also pouring water from the bucket into the tank. What is the result?

If you hold down the flush lever to allow more water into the bowl, then will you have a full flush?




Last edited by redline; 09-25-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 09-25-2006, 08:01 AM   #42
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Blocked toilet rim...please help


Use something larger then a coat hanger and work on the rim holes, I use a allen wrench set, try to use one thats just the right size to fit, once you get the key in hole/s roll it in circles, this will help break up the hard deposits around the opening. There is nothing wrong with the trap and beyond that, so rule that out.
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:08 PM   #43
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The only moving parts are located in the tank. The trap is just a tunnel that the water flows thru. The trap maintains water inside the bowl to keep sewer gas from entering the home. The water from the tank needs to have enough volume and speed to create a siphon action to remove the material from the bowl. If you get a good flush using the bucket then the bowl and trap are clear.

look at the website below and click on "click to flush" - this will show you how a toilet flushes. Read all the pages for this article and you will understand how the toilet works.

http://home.howstuffworks.com/toilet1.htm


Try flushing with the lever and also pouring water from the bucket into the tank. What is the result?

If you hold down the flush lever to allow more water into the bowl, then will you have a full flush?



That's a cool link.

So there is nothing to open...I couldn't figure that out. I knew there was water down there and there is a turn but I didn't know if there was something at the base to open.
Somebody mentioned a hole earlier and then I noticed the hole in the bowl...What is that?...and where does the air come from that helps to stop the siphoning of the remaining water in the bowl? Could there be a problem there? I don't even know where that hole goes.

If you put enough water in the tank or the bowl while flushing...it will flush, but not just a glass. It at least has to be a good size bowl. I'd say at least thirty ounces and to flush it without touching the handle takes at least a 1.6....although I'm not sure if it's a 1.6 anymore. It looks like a regular toilet. As a matter of fact I'm sure if have seen a 1.6...if I did I didn't know it.

If you hold down the handle it does not help at all....this was my first instinct but it does not help at all....at least not with the old flapper which I thought may have been too...well, you know...gunked up or corroded or whatever it is that rubber does. I haven't actually tried it with the new flapper because it didn't seem like it would make a difference but I can try it if i reset the water line....but I have a feeling it won't help. As a matter of fact...this is going to sound crazy probably but I would say that the faster I push the handle and take my hand off of it...the better it flushes.
I know it seems that should make absolutely no difference but it seems to help it along...it seems to be a little more audible when pressing it down very quickly. I'm thinking if there is anything to it but mere phenomenon it is because the first bit of water rushes into the hole rather than letting it in casually.

I may really be starting to imagine toilet behaviour that doesn't exsist but it honestly seems like it makes a difference.

Last edited by melanie; 09-25-2006 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:17 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron The Plumber View Post
Use something larger then a coat hanger and work on the rim holes, I use a allen wrench set, try to use one thats just the right size to fit, once you get the key in hole/s roll it in circles, this will help break up the hard deposits around the opening. There is nothing wrong with the trap and beyond that, so rule that out.
ok.

Are you positive?
It couldn't be narrowed out or and anything and just need more weight in the water?

I will try using something else but the holes are different sizes. One is real big...I guess because it's for the front.

I do have a respirator and goggles and I have used chemicals before that weren't the nicest things to play with....stuff with MEK and lead and stuff like that. I used to be a pneumatic painter.
I just have never heard of muratic acid....I don't know where to get it and I didn't know if it was something highly combustible or what.
I'll have to check my filters to see what all they protect against if it is truely noxious and harmful but I do have one.
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Old 09-25-2006, 06:31 PM   #45
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Am I positive?

Yes I am, 22 years in the field doing nothing but plumbing, it's the rate of water flow leaving the tank and entering the bowl defines how well it will flush.

The hole in bottom of toilet starts the siphone action in the bowl once flushed, if this hole gets plugged up, the bowl water will just swril and never evacuate the contents.
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