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Old 02-03-2014, 10:52 PM   #1
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Planning stages of basement bathroom. Here is a photo of the corner area I have picked out.

-The purple is the existing 4" running in the slab. The location is confirmed via camera.

-That stack on the left of the photo is all vent pipe above the upper 4" San-T. So I can tie into that to vent this bath group.

-The brown is the estimated framing.

-You can see the location I want to put the toilet and lav. The shower will be a 36" x 60" in the corner where the shelving is.

Here is a real photo of the basement.
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet-100_7199.jpg  

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Old 02-03-2014, 10:53 PM   #2
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Here is a sketch of how Im thinking of setting the fixtures. Is it OK to use the shower drain as a wet vent for the toilet?

-Purple is existing 4"
-Gray will be 3" for toilet
-Green will be 2" for shower and vent
-Orange will be 1.5" for lav.

The vent locations are shown in red circles.
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet-667i9.jpg  


Last edited by hammerlane; 02-03-2014 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:23 PM   #3
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


I couldn't do that under my code but my venting rules are different. I'm not much help for Ohio work.
Ghost will have the answer for you though
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Old 02-03-2014, 11:59 PM   #4
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


OK...Ive seen a lot of posts recently about basement bathrooms and figured I should get going on mine.

If this setup can't work I can move fixtures around. I'll wait for Ghost.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:09 AM   #5
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Guess I could move the toilet over beside the lav and wet vent thru the lav.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:57 PM   #6
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


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Guess I could move the toilet over beside the lav and wet vent thru the lav.
Those photos both present the same issue for us westerners.... We have to vent off the top of the pipe, which means hitting a wall before travelling to the fixture. It can't be horizontal below the floor.

You'll have to wait for someone from your area to chime in on this one.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:48 PM   #7
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Those photos both present the same issue for us westerners.... We have to vent off the top of the pipe, which means hitting a wall before travelling to the fixture. It can't be horizontal below the floor.

You'll have to wait for someone from your area to chime in on this one.
In this diagram though, the shower and lav definitely have a vertical takeoff on the vents. So in your area it would be the wet vented part for the toilet that is your issue?


I wonder if the laws of physics change from one time zone to another. I figure if it works in one State it should work in the others. Speaking of the way water drains downhill that is.
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Last edited by hammerlane; 02-04-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Either way is fine. What you have marked as a vent has nothing from upper floors draining into it right?

Make sure any tie in to the 4 inch is 40 inches downstream of the stack.

Some things to consider
I would also suggest you make only a single cut into your exiting underground install a clean out on the branch of your y run 3 inch to your water closet with a 3 by 4 inch 90 the 4 inch coming out of the concrete. if you do that you will only need a 2 " vent on the first fixture downstream of the toilet. As long as you do not go beyond 8 foot to your shower trap.

Your inspector will need to see a 5 lb air test on your new piping and the multiple cuts into existing is a problem you do not need... Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.

Not to mention your placing the shower under your duct that will not leave much headroom once you install a ceiling. With concrete saws the ditching is not the problem.

You will also need a fart fan for water vapor...

And don't forget the wet bar for the man cave...

Last edited by Ghostmaker; 02-04-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:04 AM   #9
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


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Either way is fine. What you have marked as a vent has nothing from upper floors draining into it right?
100% positive of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Make sure any tie in to the 4 inch is 40 inches downstream of the stack.
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
I would also suggest you make only a single cut into your exiting underground install a clean out on the branch of your y run 3 inch to your water closet with a 3 by 4 inch 90 the 4 inch coming out of the concrete. if you do that you will only need a 2 " vent on the first fixture downstream of the toilet.
You're saying to put cleanout in the floor along the 3" lateral to the toilet? Also Good call on using the reducing closet bend.


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Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.
When you say bath do you mean the shower or the entire bath group?

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Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in.
Also I do not understand the statement about using Mission brand transitional couplings. Why would I use a mission coupling? Why not just use PVC cement when securing the new "Y" to the existing 4". The existing 4" in the slab is PVC. Maybe I did not make that point clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
Not to mention your placing the shower under your duct that will not leave much headroom once you install a ceiling.
That duct is 42" out from the wall. May not look it from the photo. After framing out the wall then with a 36" deep shower base, I still will not be under that duct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostmaker View Post
You will also need a fart fan for water vapor
A fan will definitely be installed.


Either way Ghost...thanks for the comments. I did get a few ideas from you.

Last edited by hammerlane; 02-05-2014 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:17 AM   #10
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


"Also I do not understand the statement about using Mission brand transitional couplings. Why would I use a mission coupling? Why not just use PVC cement when securing the new "Y" to the existing 4". The existing 4" in the slab is PVC. Maybe I did not make that point clear."

If you have two ends of a pipe partially buried in concrete how will you move the pipe to make the joint of the Y your installing? Professionals may glue one side of a Y in but the other side will have a short pipe stubbed out with a mission coupling.

"Rethink where your putting the bath and run the entire thing on its own 3 inch line with a clean out so you can ball the new stuff for a test. Use Mission brand transitional couplings plastic to plastic on your main when you cut the Y in."

With your exiting drain running through where you intend to place the bath it will cause you headaches getting around it. I found it better over the years to just make your tie in and then move the bath out of the area of exiting underground piping.

Last edited by Ghostmaker; 02-05-2014 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM   #11
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If you have two ends of a pipe partially buried in concrete how will you move the pipe to make the joint of the Y your installing? Professionals may glue one side of a Y in but the other side will have a short pipe stubbed out with a mission coupling.
Gotcha Ghost...Never thought of that issue. Guess thats what experience does for you.

Thanks for the point.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:46 PM   #12
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Hey Ghost....I saw an episode of Ask This Old House. When they plumbed in the basement bath, the shower and toilet were both wet vented off the lav. See photo below.

Would this allowed in Ohio? See diagram below. In this diagram, the entire bath is on its own 3" like you mentioned in one of your previous posts. Also in the diagram, the lav is shown venting the shower and toilet.

Thanks
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet-oldhouse1.jpg   Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet-vista-8-all-along-south-wall-all-wet-vent-lav.jpg  

Last edited by hammerlane; 02-05-2014 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:52 AM   #13
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


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Would this allowed in Ohio? See diagram below. In this diagram, the entire bath is on its own 3" like you mentioned in one of your previous posts. Also in the diagram, the lav is shown venting the shower and toilet.

Thanks
According to Ohio Chapter 4101:3-9. Any combination of fixtures within a bathroom group located on the same floor level is permitted to be vented by a horizontal wet vent. So yes you can wet vent the shower and WC off the lav. The wet vent needs to be sized properly depending on the dfu's. Also each wet vented fixture drain shall connect independently to the horizontal wet vent. So in your last picture if you made the lav drain 3" and connected that into your 4" then connect your WC and shower independently into the 3" from the lav I think that would satisfy the requirement. See if ghostmaker agrees.

Last edited by rosem637; 02-06-2014 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:58 AM   #14
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


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So in your last picture if you made the lav drain 3" and connected that into your 4" then connect your WC and shower independently into the 3" from the lav I think that would satisfy the requirement. See if ghostmaker agrees.
Are you suggesting that the diagram on the right would be a better way to go as compared to the diagram on the left? I did read in the code the statement about "each wet vented fixture drain shall connect independently to the horizontal wet vent". Just wondering if below is the correct interpretation of that??
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet-side-side.jpg  

Last edited by hammerlane; 02-06-2014 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:55 AM   #15
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Basement bathroom--use shower vent for toilet


Normally they want it sized based on the fixtures being served.... it may be 3" to the shower wye, but I really doubt that they want a 3" drain/vent on the lav. Probably 2" from the shower through the roof.

Wait for an ohioan to confirm.

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