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-   -   Baseboard Heat / Cold rooms / No Bleeders (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/baseboard-heat-cold-rooms-no-bleeders-84146/)

alecmcmahon 10-17-2010 08:11 AM

Baseboard Heat / Cold rooms / No Bleeders
 
First time getting cold in my recently purchased house, we are noticing it's cold in 2 rooms.

I do hear some gurrguling in the pipes, but i do not have any bleeders on any of the convectors.

Single level ranch with basement.

Here is a diagram of the system, It confuses me cause it's not all run in series, it T's off at both the supply and return, it's after that point where the cold rooms are.

One T-STAT, One Circ Pump

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/...4da16354_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/...a796c85b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/...1dcc6e62_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4110/...a9342ec1_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/...d8a70b65_b.jpg

alecmcmahon 10-17-2010 08:45 AM

Think i helped it a bit, bleed alot of air out of the expansion tank, and through the hose spiket above the circ pump, but i feel as though the convectors that were not working arent getting as hot as the others.

thoughts?

AllanJ 10-17-2010 09:03 AM

Close off part of the baseboards in the warmer rooms and/or adjust the louvers in them.

Also you should put a valve in each loop, or maybe there already is such a valve. Close the valve for the top loop and let it run for a few hours to see how well the bottom loop works and give the system a chance to stir up and get some of the air out of the bottom loop. Then open the valve for the top loop partway.

The expansion tank should be about 1/3 full of water and the rest air. Since you cannot see the level of water in the tank, we need complicated calibration methods to get it right.

Ishmael 10-17-2010 10:07 AM

Even though there are no bleeders on the convectors, there should still be tappings for bleeders - probably plugged right now. The first thing I'd do is install a coin vent, or a can/bucket vent on each convector. While you have the system drained, you can check that expansion tank and make sure it isn't waterlogged.

braindead 10-17-2010 03:22 PM

If thats a one pipe system there is no way you are going to get it to work right, it needs to be piped in a continous loop

COLDIRON 10-17-2010 04:23 PM

Looks like the hot water is taking the path of least resistance ..you probably have to install balance valves on the returns to balance the flow.

alecmcmahon 10-17-2010 07:05 PM

yeh, a continuous loop would make more sense, i dont know why it does that.


Also, i noticed when i just woke up now lots of water around the boiler, The saftey is popping @ the boiler ( 30 PSI saftey )


Again, what i did ( not sure if it was the right way ) .. I took the cap off the end of the expansion tank and pushed the pin in to bleed alot of air out , then cracked one of the spikets near the circulation pump to pull some air out.

Why might the saftey be popping now?

advice?

alecmcmahon 10-17-2010 07:28 PM

spoke to somebody from work, looks like i was NOT suppused to take the air out of the expansion tank.

he said I had to drain the system ( isoloate the boiler ) drain the water, remove the expansion tank, dump all the water out of the expansion tank, use a bicycle pump or like the likes and a air gauge to put 12-15 pounds of air back into the expansion tank, put the tank back onto the pipe, re fill the system.

sound correct?

alecmcmahon 10-17-2010 08:46 PM

well, fixed the pressure problem, though... once again i feel the the two problem rooms arent getting hot enough, im going by feeling the convectors and not by room temp.

The two rooms on the weird ' loop ' is just not getting hot enough.

I still do not understand why this is not all just one continuous loop, somebody mentioned something about a vaulve i can install so that they both get equal hot water?

Ishmael 10-17-2010 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alecmcmahon (Post 518589)
I still do not understand why this is not all just one continuous loop, somebody mentioned something about a vaulve i can install so that they both get equal hot water?

It's a split zone. Maybe there was an addition to the house at one time, and they decided it was cheaper/easier to do it that way than to add a 2nd zone or make a continuous loop. It should work fine as long as one loop isn't significantly longer than the other (within 20%). Did you add bleeders to the convectors while the system was empty?

alecmcmahon 10-18-2010 02:35 AM

AHhhhh, still having problems with the pressure. Pressure relife keeps popping and dumping water out.

Any tips for trouble shooting?

I had put 15# of air into the expansion tank when i had it off.

Im not at home to test it right now, but im starting to suspect the air isnt holding in the expansion tank, leak in bladder maybe? i do recall a hearing a little air pissing out before i re-installed the expansion tank.

COLDIRON 10-18-2010 05:53 AM

Sounds like the auto water feed valve is not shutting off and you are overfeeding water raising the pressure.. Fill the system shut off the water feed and watch it for a day see if it pops.

Ishmael 10-18-2010 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alecmcmahon (Post 518698)
AHhhhh, still having problems with the pressure. Pressure relife keeps popping and dumping water out.

Any tips for trouble shooting?

I had put 15# of air into the expansion tank when i had it off.

Im not at home to test it right now, but im starting to suspect the air isnt holding in the expansion tank, leak in bladder maybe? i do recall a hearing a little air pissing out before i re-installed the expansion tank.

When you press the pin inside the stem on the expansion tank (like you would if you wanted to let air out of a tire) does water come out? If so, you need a new expansion tank. If not, but the tank doesn't seem to be holding air, you can get a little tool at a bike shop to tighten the pin in the stem - 1/8 turn or less is usually plenty; don't over-tighten it.

AllanJ 10-18-2010 06:53 AM

15 lb. (psi) air with the pressure tank 7/8'th full of water is a different situation compared with 15 lb. air with the pressure tank 1/8'th full of water. The only way to start from square one is to drain the pressure tank and the only way to drain the pressure tank is to take it off and the only to take it off without getting water all over the place is to drain the system.

Test the pressure tank for a good bladder while the tank is off the system, see if the air pressure does not hold. You need a good needle gauge that drops back to zero as soon as you pull it off the nipple. (Don't use a tire gauge where a stick shoots out or a gauge where the needle holds the reading as you pull it off.)

Different furnaces and different lengths of heating zones have different pressures you need to set when you are calibrating.

alecmcmahon 10-18-2010 07:37 AM

I've confirmed that the expansion tank held the air in it since yesterday, it still has 15 lbs of air in the expansion tank.

Is 15# not the proper amount?


It starts out running at like 15-20 PSI , then after about an hour of running it raisies up to 30 PSI and the pressure relife pops

ideas??


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