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Old 10-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #1
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


Hi and thanks for reading.

Please bear with me as I explain the situation.

I have a 56 year old cape with a 4" cast iron stack down to the sewer line with, from the bottom-up starting at the foot of the slab:

1) A 3.5" cleanout

2) A tee-off for the sink/dishwasher drain, which loops back to the next element ... my guess would be 1.5 or 2".

3) double tee (same size as the drain in #2), one side is the vent for the sink dishwasher, the other side is the vent for the 2" washing-machine drain that connects below the cleanout via a u-trap buried underneath the slab.

Of course, somewhere under there is the ground-floor toilet connection, which is directly opposite the bottom clean-out.

I'm building a bathroom upstairs where there nary 'twas one before ...

Now of course, the right thing to do would be to have someone who knew what they were doing come in, dig up the slab and give me a new stack coming off at or below where the ground-floor toilet connects to the existing stack.

Not gonna' happen ... this place had a mold problem that set me back like 30% of my budget already. That was two years ago.

So the way I see it, I've got two options, neither of them good, but I'd like opinions as to which one would be less bad:

Option #1: hook into the clean-out at the bottom above the slab. I guess I'll need a 3.5"-3" bushing. Interesting side question: the cap is brass but the pipe is iron, **** things really rusty as it is ... should I use a brass or an iron bushing?

Option #2: tie-into the pipe from above (cut at a point between the floors, add a fernco). I thought about this and it would seem to me that if there's a toilet draining from above, that I'd have to cap the two 2" vents that I described, as since there's no water flowing through them, then this would create an unsanitary condition. I'm hoping that since there's water flow through the 2" connection below that for the kitchen sink and dishwasher that what I'm worried about for the vents wouldn't apply. I'd reconnect the vents of course, but above the upstairs drain tie-in.

Looking forward to any and all criticism. No feelings left here to hurt

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Old 10-01-2012, 11:17 PM   #2
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


I can't follow your jargon
If this is a 4" waste stack in the basement, cut in a tee or a wye to pick up the new bathroom. You also need vents for the new fixtures.
Got a picture or drawing?

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Old 10-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #3
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


Hey thanks for slogging through all that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEplumber View Post
If this is a 4" waste stack in the basement, cut in a tee or a wye to pick up the new bathroom.
Unfortunately, there is no basement, the house is on a slab.

I'm thinking of cutting into the (yes it is a 4") stack above the existing kitchen sink drain.

Above where that kitchen sink drain tees off are two vents, and these are below where I'm thinking of cutting in --- my guess is that it would be best to cap them. Is that good enough?

The other option I can see is to hook up to a clean-out at the base of the stack right where the pipe dives down into the concrete. The cap to that is brass ... would an iron bushing to go down from the 3.5" thread to a 3" thread be ok?

Thanks again! ... don't know if I have time to post a pic ... I gotta take action tomorrow ... this has gone on far too long ... guy that I trusted installed a 3" drain down into a clean out but when I was debugging the slow downstairs tub I realized that it was completely unsuitable to drain a toilet as it was at the top of a trap and had only a 1.5" outlet. Failed to drain two wet paper towels I used as a test. The 3" pvc from the upstairs has been re-built 3 times already ... a fine comedy of errors that is
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:13 AM   #4
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


help me understand please
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:01 AM   #5
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


You lost me

Sounds like you want to tie into a vent- no can do

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Old 10-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #6
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


Quote:
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Sounds like you want to tie into a vent- no can do
ah! yes! ok ... thank you for that. I think I see why that would be, but if you would care to comment on that, (WHY is tieing into a vent prohibited?) as if you were explaining it to someone who knows very little of plumbing, it might confirm my suspicions.

Is it ok to tie into a vent if you are below where any of the fixtures that connect to it as a vent connect?
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:41 PM   #7
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


if I was in your situation, I would *not* be in such a hurry to take care of a problem that "has gone on far too long".

I would first try to take care of that problem mentioned in your post #3, then take some pictures, get advice from pros here, then proceed.

trust me, I've done it. You don't want to create more problems, especially d.w.v. involving stinky solids

good luck
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:54 PM   #8
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Which Bad Option Is Best For My New Upstairs Sanitary Drain?


Quote:
Originally Posted by doinmybest View Post
ah! yes! ok ... thank you for that. I think I see why that would be, but if you would care to comment on that, (WHY is tieing into a vent prohibited?) as if you were explaining it to someone who knows very little of plumbing, it might confirm my suspicions.

Is it ok to tie into a vent if you are below where any of the fixtures that connect to it as a vent connect?
Simply put- you can't wet vent multiple floors.
You need to tie in downstream of the lower level toilet.
Here is a scenario that could happen. Water and solids displace air as it goes down the pipe. Where will this air go? Into your existing sink lines and toilet. Do you want your sink and toilet to bubble when someone upstairs flushes?

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