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Another toilet not flushing thread

4K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  oh'mike 
#1 ·
I'm sorry for posting yet another "toilet not flushing well" thread, but it appears that there are 100 reasons a toilet may not flush properly.

Ours is an intermittent problem.
Water reaches the top of the bowl, but only rarely overflows.
It sometimes appears that the flush is weak.
Augering brings up what appears to be rust.
If someone flushes with a bucket (sometimes my dad will take water from his bath to flush, using a bucket), then the next flush from the tank usually will not completely flush the toilet, even if there is nothing but water in the bowl.

The house is 80 years old, with the original plumbing, but the toilet was replaced within the past 20 years with an American Standard.

Twice over the past 7 days, the toilet has refused to flush. Augering took more than one shot, going full throttle on the (hand operated) auger.

My thoughts are:
Corroded/clogged pipes (especially elbows) between the toilet and the stack.
Clogged roof vent.
Toilet trap is clogged/corroded.

I think it's time to call a qualified plumber to inspect the situation.
There is nothing more I can do myself here.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

FW
 
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#13 ·
If I am following correctly, it sounds like two separate, unrelated problems.

If the water closet is not filling, you have a supply problem. Does the tank fill to the same level each time? If not, this could be fixed as easily as cleaning, adjusting, or replacing the valve in the tank, or replacing the toilet, which would contain everything that you would need. You would want to have a bucket and mop handy, but, assuming you have a shut off valve below the toilet tank, it might be worth shutting it off, removing the line at the tank, and opening the valve, to see what kind of flow that you have. If you have galvanized pipe, it would not be uncommon for the lines to be a fraction of their original capacity.

The other issue, obviously, is the waste flow. If you have not yet done so, I would snake the vent line, which, if plugged, does the same thing as holding your finger over the end of a straw. If that provides no relief, frankly, even though I deeply believe in sweat equity, I would call a plumber, because, particularly with a house that old, you could very well have multiple issues, including inadequate venting, improper bends, and on and on.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Ok first if you are not getting enough water then open the tank and above the flapper "rubber gasket connected with a chain" you will see where the water exits into the tank on the top of that you will see a set screw "little plastic screw" turn that counter clockwise to adjust water level in tank. that is the first thing i would do.


http://www.ehow.com/how_2070148_adjust-toilet-water-level.html
 
#4 ·
Thanks guys;
I'll try both of the suggestions first.
I think I should also do some testing with various amounts of paper in the bowl. I can keep the tank open, so can stop the flow immediately if the bowl starts to fill up.

This toilet has a bad history. It has backed up to overflowing several times over the past few years, and lately has not been flushing reliably.
We have found that we must use only single-ply paper, or it clogs a lot more frequently.

One of the problems though, is Murphy's Law. The toilet will always flush when it is being tested, especially by a professional.
I am going to have to persist on this, and at least get an idea of what the problem is before calling the plumber, or he will get here, flush it a few times, and tell us there is nothing wrong.
Maybe we should give the plumber a large meal, then ask him to come back several hours later to use the toilet himself, then try to flush it...:laughing:

FW
 
#5 ·
I've got another thought:
Are there specific toilets that work best on old plumbing?
For example, I don't think a toilet with the lowest flush volume would work, due to too many constrictions in the old plumbing.

I'm wondering also whether there is a way I can do a simple test for a clogged vent pipe.
For instance, would the water in the toilet bowl not move at all during a windy day when wind is blowing across the top of the vent pipe?
Would the toilet make a lot of noise, such as gurgles, bubbles, or create a suction that would leave almost no water standing in the trap?

I am trying to avoid expensive diagnostic testing of the plumbing system. I would rather just replace the toilet, and in the process, have the pipe roto-rootered.

Thanks

FW
 
#7 · (Edited)
Dis regard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you should have more than 1 vent so it will tie from another "in some parts of Europe they don't even use vents" also now toilets are only 1.6 gpf "Gallon per flush" and you are not allowed more then 1.6 gpf. wind would not effect it unless you cover all drains in house and all vents and waste and you would need a pressurized tool to fill the line up then toilet will bubble. I would pop off the toilet by turning off the angle stop, unhook line from tank,flush all existing water out,unscrew from floor and take out. BTW: the p-trap is built in the toilet so i would just try to put a coat hanger up there.
 
#8 ·
you should have more than 1 vent so it will tie from another "in some parts of Europe they don't even use vents" also now toilets are only 1.6 gpf "Gallon per flush" and you are not allowed more then 1.6 gpf. wind would not effect it unless you cover all drains in house and all vents and waste and you would need a pressurized tool to fill the line up then toilet will bubble. I would pop off the toilet by turning off the angle stop, unhook line from tank,flush all existing water out,unscrew from floor and take out. BTW: the p-trap is built in the toilet so i would just try to put a coat hanger up there.
what are you talking about and where are you from.....
 
#10 ·
This is typical symptom of a slow main drain---to the street?---

When there is little action and the main line has a chance to drain out--toilet will work fine

when there is a lot of water in the main line--the toilet will not flush properly---

You need to get a sewer rodder in to those pipes and rod --from the toilet --all the way to the street.

If you have a septic system--the pipes might be clear and the tank is full---let us know---Mike---
 
#11 ·
yes mike it sounds reasonable ..but if drain is slow and water is at top of bowl that say it in the toilet because if it was in the drain it would back up into tub or lowest fixture.....not sure iif he said anything was backing up....and he could fill tub or sink with water flush potty till it fills then drain tub or sink??
 
#12 ·
If I were there I'd pull the toilet and dump lots of water down the pipe and see if it takes the water-

It could be the toilet itself---But it sounds like a slow drain---maybe foaming from the washing machine---but it sure sounds like a slow drain.
 
#16 ·
.....seen objects floating in back where it exits causing intermittent problems....
That's a fact!

The funniest one was a round flat disk--the cover from a box of diaper wipes-

It lodged in the J bend and would flip around like a valve--some times blocking the trap and other times allowing the toilet to work---

Perfect size---:laughing:
 
#19 ·
Reminds me of this preacher who was notoriously long winded. Shows up one Sunday with an extremely short sermon, so the service is letting out 15 minutes early, and one of the elders asked him what what going on. The preacher explains that he got new false teeth and they hurt when he talks. Next Sunday, a bit longer, but still short, so the elder asks him if it still hurts to talk. "Yup, but it's getting better". The next Sunday, the preacher goes on and on and on, and the service runs two hours longer than normal. The elder approaches the preacher after the service and explains that he's glad that the preacher is feeling better, but he shouldn't have tried to make up the past couple of weeks worth all at one time. Preacher replies "no, that's not it. I picked up my wife's false teeth by mistake, and couldn;t stop talking."

Okay, I'm leaving now. The flank steak is about done, so time to eat!
 
#21 ·
Hey guys;
Thanks for all of your input.
Now, let me answer the questions about my situation:

We have city sewer system.

The toilet in question is on the 2nd floor. There is another bath in the basement. There is nothing backing up in the basement, so I would think a slow main sewer line would have it backing up down there.

The bathroom is in the front of the house, so there is just a short section of pipe from the toilet (must be at least two bends) to the stack, then from the bottom of the stack to the street is about 40ft.

We did have a clogged main line once, many years ago, and there was water backing up in the basement toilet, and bathtub when the upstairs was flushed. But we had a professional roto-rooter and it hasn't been a problem since.
Also, the original plumbing had a house trap in the main line, in the basement, but that was removed about ten years ago and now have only the single plug clean-out in the basement (none outside the house).

I have to look at the water level in the tank. I did look right after the suggestion was posted here, and it was full to within 1/2" of the top of the overflow pipe. But I don't know for sure if it is filling every time. I replaced the fill system a couple of years ago, so I believe it is still OK.

When I flush the toilet now, the jets in the bowl appear to be flowing well.
It has been flushing every time now since I augered it 3x the night it fouled up.

I suppose that there could be something lodged in the trap. We have a 14yr old girl living in the house, and she does all sorts of things in the bathroom, and there is always a lot of stuff on the back of the toilet. Who knows what could have fallen in there...

I know that some members of the family use too much paper. We are using the 1-ply now, but it is possible that too much paper combined with an incomplete fill of the tank would leave some of the paper lodged in the pipes, causing a backup the next time it is flushed.
There have been instances where the toilet does not appear to have anything besides water in the bowl, and the flush brings the level up to the top. I guess that could be indicative of something fouling the pipes further down.

The supply plumbing is copper and brass. No iron pipe at all. The pressure into the toilet appears to be fine.

I don't think I am going to pull the toilet myself. I am not too good with the messy stuff. OK with supply plumbing, and cleaning a drain or replacing a trap, but with the toilet, and old plumbing, I'm afraid I'm inviting Mr. Murphy into the house, so I'll get a pro for that job.
That said, I'm not sure that a pro would even bother to test the line when replacing a toilet. Some of them just assume it's the toilet, and plop down a new one, say you're good to go. Then a few months later the problem pops up again...
So if we have to get the pro, I am going to insist that he roto the line before putting down a new toilet, and to check/clean the vent pipe.

I could get access to the vent pipe myself, but I have to remove a pane of glass in one of the attic dormer windows. The window itself cannot be opened. I think I can get the glass out, then bring up the snake, and then the garden hose to flush it out.
I don't have a ladder long enough to reach the vent from the ground.

We are going to monitor the situation closely, and try to determine what events lead up to the failure to flush.
My intuition tells me that in a situation like this one, haste does make waste, and we need to collect as much data as possible before spending large amounts of cash for inspection or new fixtures.
I would love to have a video of the plumbing system though. Maybe I will inquire about that first. It might shed light on a whole lot of things we're not even covering yet.

Thanks again for all of your help on this.

FW
 
#22 ·
Your new details help---problem is likely--toilet clogged--pipe from toilet to stack clogged---or vent clogged--

You are right if main were the problem--the lower level would be hit first---

I suspect the toilet---
 
#23 ·
I've got another question:
We have at least two vent pipes on the roof that I know of.
One is directly above the stack (the one outside the attic window I mentioned in my last post), and the second one is towards the back of the house.

We have a laundry room in the back of the basement, and there is a vent pipe leading up from the washtub drain line. This drain line also carries the water from the kitchen sink.

Looking at the stack in the basement, I see the large pipe from the upstairs toilet, and a smaller pipe going into it, which I assume comes from the upstairs bathroom basin and bathtub (I understand that the toilet must have a separate line).

There is also a vent pipe leading from the drain line for the basement bathroom tub and sink. This one turns up the wall next to where the main stack goes up.

So, I am unsure as to what the vent pipe I see just outside the attic window is connected to. Is that the one from the basement tub & sink, and also connected to the upstairs tub & sink?
I would think that the toilet must have its own vent pipe, completely separate from the tub & sink vents.

The vent pipe coming out the roof at the back of the house looks like a larger diameter than the one in the front. I can see the pipe in the attic.
So I thought this was the main vent for the toilets, but if so, why is it in the back of the house when the toilets are in the front?

I will try to take some photos and post here.

FW
 
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