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Old 12-05-2012, 06:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ben's plumbing View Post
yep agree coldiron.. we work on 3-payment plan..33 1/3 down...33 1/3 after rough in...331/3 after trim and test.. plus any extras that we had in writing....you have given him too much money...he can't finish because he don;t have the cash...and you will not make another payment till he is finished with job..ben sr
While this may very well be the case, we have only heard the homeowners- who I assume is the CG- side of the story. I would like to hear what the plumber has to say about the project in general. We all know you can go into a job with a good margin- only to watch it whittle away due to poor on-site management, ill timed work, back ordered material, weather, etc.

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Old 12-05-2012, 07:06 PM   #17
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While this may very well be the case, we have only heard the homeowners- who I assume is the CG- side of the story. I would like to hear what the plumber has to say about the project in general. We all know you can go into a job with a good margin- only to watch it whittle away due to poor on-site management, ill timed work, back ordered material, weather, etc.
while again i agree with you ....but ... no matter what imo no job should drag on for 6 months.... even if that were the case... poor site management...I would cancel contract leave job...no GC would screw me around...ever.. but you make a good point
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #18
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Are you GC'ing the house yourself? If so, that's probably half the problem right there.

I'm a plumber, and if I have 3 builders/GC's (who give me several projects/year) who need me at their jobs and one homeowner who is trying to play GC on his own project, then who do you think I'll take care of first?
That situation was my first thought exactly.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:15 PM   #19
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thanks for all the insightful input...
- yes i am GCing the job myself
- the owner says his guy is "the best of the best", but i'll have to disagree with him since it took him three tries to get the liner not to leak... not to mention a host of other annoying issues...
- i've been extreeeemely flexible with him... some days he'll show up and others, he won't and i haven't complained too much until now...
- it's one thing to be put at the back of the priority list and it's another to be completely unreliable... "just be at the house when you say you will and if you're not, tell me so i don't plan other dependencies around it!"
- it's a 4br, 3ba colonial... took him 4 months to finish the rough... could have closed up the walls a month sooner if he didn't take so long...
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:15 AM   #20
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KWIK & ISHMAEL I understand you guys are Contractor's but I disagree on a couple things you both agree on. All money spends whether it comes from steady customers or fill ins.
Every customer and job should be treated equal, word of mouth travels whether it's a homeowner, big Company, GC's.
All specifications and job requirements should be spelled out before assuming responsibility for completing jobs.
If you guys can't show everybody the same interest and respect you shouldn't be in business and someday it will come back to bite you.
If you can't handle all the jobs you take on don't take them on or hire more men or have an on call staff to fill in where needed.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by COLDIRON
KWIK & ISHMAEL I understand you guys are Contractor's but I disagree on a couple things you both agree on. All money spends whether it comes from steady customers or fill ins.
Every customer and job should be treated equal, word of mouth travels whether it's a homeowner, big Company, GC's.
All specifications and job requirements should be spelled out before assuming responsibility for completing jobs.
If you guys can't show everybody the same interest and respect you shouldn't be in business and someday it will come back to bite you.
If you can't handle all the jobs you take on don't take them on or hire more men or have an on call staff to fill in where needed.
That's just not the way things work. It sucks, I know, but hopefully you learned something here. Life is not fair. I know, I know. Am I sure? Yes I am.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:40 AM   #22
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That's just not the way things work. It sucks, I know, but hopefully you learned something here. Life is not fair. I know, I know. Am I sure? Yes I am.
" I always learn something been in the Contracting business 45 years"
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:49 AM   #23
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well again the debate starts...contractors are not equal....some have very different opinions as to how to do there business....when you start a job you can only make enough money if its done in a timely fashion... and you are being paid on performace basic.....we just started 66 unit condo project..will show pictures of progress..anyway if i take on outside work away from this project ...its because I know how to run my business..if you want something done in a hurry call someone busy...he knows how to priortise and get things done ...IMO If the contractor is not working with him ...ITS TIME TO MOVE ON...PERIOD>>>DON'T MAKE EXCUSES THAT HE SLOWED ME DOWN>>WHILE IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN....IT SHOULD ONY HAPPEN ONCE>>>>ALL MY CONTRACTS WITH CONTRACTORS SAYS IF YOU HOLD ME UP OUR CONTRACT IS VOID>>>>IF YOU DON'T CORRECT THE ISSUES IAM OUT OF HERE..IT HAS WORKED FOR MORE THAN 40 YRS INTHE BUSINESS..BEN SR
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #24
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If you guys can't show everybody the same interest and respect you shouldn't be in business and someday it will come back to bite you.
If you can't handle all the jobs you take on don't take them on
I never said that’s how I do business but just that it happens, and it happens a lot.

There’s nothing that irritates me more in construction than people that don’t do what they said they would. This includes contractors, suppliers and yes even customers.

I’ve known many contractors over the years (of all trades) that regularly “spike jobs”. They show up, drop materials, get started and disappear. They may have 4-5 jobs going with none of them finished. They spend all their time “putting out fires” in other words, working for whoever is barking the loudest that day. I never could understand this practice, “I” want to get there, get done, get paid, and move on.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:36 AM   #25
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I never said that’s how I do business but just that it happens, and it happens a lot.

There’s nothing that irritates me more in construction than people that don’t do what they said they would. This includes contractors, suppliers and yes even customers.

I’ve known many contractors over the years (of all trades) that regularly “spike jobs”. They show up, drop materials, get started and disappear. They may have 4-5 jobs going with none of them finished. They spend all their time “putting out fires” in other words, working for whoever is barking the loudest that day. I never could understand this practice, “I” want to get there, get done, get paid, and move on.
" Yes you did in post #18 when you agreed with ish"
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:13 PM   #26
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KWIK & ISHMAEL I understand you guys are Contractor's but I disagree on a couple things you both agree on. All money spends whether it comes from steady customers or fill ins.
Every customer and job should be treated equal, word of mouth travels whether it's a homeowner, big Company, GC's.
All specifications and job requirements should be spelled out before assuming responsibility for completing jobs.
If you guys can't show everybody the same interest and respect you shouldn't be in business and someday it will come back to bite you.
If you can't handle all the jobs you take on don't take them on or hire more men or have an on call staff to fill in where needed.
I do show everybody respect, but my point is - and you should know this - that poor management of the job site often involves unrealistic expectations on the part of the point man / manager / GC. If that person has never done it before, it's a nightmare. Phone rings every other day:

"HI! We've got one more sink ready to be installed. Can you come and do that? You'll have to come back a day or two later and do the toilet. Shower trim won't be here for another week". "What? The toilet I bought doesn't fit? What's a 10" rough? What do you mean you explained that to me months ago? I temporarily connected the kitchen sink and dishwasher so we could use them. Can you disconnect them so they can install the new cabinets and countertops and then put them back again? What do you mean that's not part of the contract? I need a C.O. before I can move into MY own house?!? My stuff's not in your way! (Down, Fido!)" etc etc etc...

Ridiculous. There would be no unemployment at all if we all staffed based on that level of expectation!
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:10 PM   #27
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I do show everybody respect, but my point is - and you should know this - that poor management of the job site often involves unrealistic expectations on the part of the point man / manager / GC. If that person has never done it before, it's a nightmare. Phone rings every other day:

"HI! We've got one more sink ready to be installed. Can you come and do that? You'll have to come back a day or two later and do the toilet. Shower trim won't be here for another week". "What? The toilet I bought doesn't fit? What's a 10" rough? What do you mean you explained that to me months ago? I temporarily connected the kitchen sink and dishwasher so we could use them. Can you disconnect them so they can install the new cabinets and countertops and then put them back again? What do you mean that's not part of the contract? I need a C.O. before I can move into MY own house?!? My stuff's not in your way! (Down, Fido!)" etc etc etc...

Ridiculous. There would be no unemployment at all if we all staffed based on that level of expectation!
"'CUSTOMERS ARE KING THEY PAY THE BILLS" I'm out.............
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:49 PM   #28
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I do show everybody respect, but my point is - and you should know this - that poor management of the job site often involves unrealistic expectations on the part of the point man / manager / GC. If that person has never done it before, it's a nightmare. Phone rings every other day:

"HI! We've got one more sink ready to be installed. Can you come and do that? You'll have to come back a day or two later and do the toilet. Shower trim won't be here for another week". "What? The toilet I bought doesn't fit? What's a 10" rough? What do you mean you explained that to me months ago? I temporarily connected the kitchen sink and dishwasher so we could use them. Can you disconnect them so they can install the new cabinets and countertops and then put them back again? What do you mean that's not part of the contract? I need a C.O. before I can move into MY own house?!? My stuff's not in your way! (Down, Fido!)" etc etc etc...

Ridiculous. There would be no unemployment at all if we all staffed based on that level of expectation!
even the worse management job site would not take 6 months and while your illustration is somewhat exagerated because as i stated eairler ..if a contractor can't manage his job...why do you want to stay and endure his crap...you don't have too..cancel contract and move on....all my contracts state..if I am held up due to management..contract is void ..must pay me up to the point job is done...bye bye..its worked for 40 yrs...I DON'T NEED CONTRACTORS.....THEY NEED MEben sr
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #29
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even the worse management job site would not take 6 months and while your illustration is somewhat exagerated because as i stated eairler ..if a contractor can't manage his job...why do you want to stay and endure his crap...you don't have too..cancel contract and move on....all my contracts state..if I am held up due to management..contract is void ..must pay me up to the point job is done...bye bye..its worked for 40 yrs...I DON'T NEED CONTRACTORS.....THEY NEED MEben sr
I agree with that Ben. Not trying to defend this guy so much as defending the trade and having a little fun with the scenario All things I've had to deal with over the years, but not necessarily on the same job. You can be the greatest dancer since Fred Astaire, but if your dance partner has two left feet, the show aint necessarily gonna be pretty.

But part of why I do stick with those jobs and finish them is that I want to deliver on what I've promised. But I'll only take so much ineptitude coming back at me. If someone wants to drag out the schedule and ask me to do things above and beyond the original contract, then I'll do my best to accomodate them - when I can squeeze them in.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:27 PM   #30
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I agree with that Ben. Not trying to defend this guy so much as defending the trade and having a little fun with the scenario All things I've had to deal with over the years, but not necessarily on the same job. You can be the greatest dancer since Fred Astaire, but if your dance partner has two left feet, the show aint necessarily gonna be pretty.

But part of why I do stick with those jobs and finish them is that I want to deliver on what I've promised. But I'll only take so much ineptitude coming back at me. If someone wants to drag out the schedule and ask me to do things above and beyond the original contract, then I'll do my best to accomodate them - when I can squeeze them in.
agree with that...but that promise is also based on there promise to you to have things ready on time or somewhat close...you have other customers as well...this is for you as well as all other tradesmen..when i started my business in 1975 ..I said i would not let one single contractor screw me up at anytime because of managment,,other things happen that slow down progress as we are all aware...but when a gc don't do his job we can't do our's....so advice from an old timer...don't let them take advantage of you ..they need you ..and will call you back always if you are good at what you do....just saying ben sr

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