Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Plumbing

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2009, 09:41 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Share |
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


OK, I've reluctantly come to the conclusion I need to add a sump pit to my basement due to an occaisionally high water table. I bought a liner (22" deep, 18" diameter). I ordered a cast iron 1/3 HP Zoeller non-automatic pump, a check valve, and a Vertical Master float switch after reasearching online and finding this is a good setup. I am making an airtight lid for the sump so my radon remediation system will still work. I've got all the equipment, and am not too worried about doing the install, but I do have quite a few questions on the details and would appreciate any/all advice feedback.

First, I have no idea if I have perimeter drains around my foundation, so I wasn't planning on tying into any. I know once the water hits my floor level, it shows itself all over different spots in the floor, not just in one area. I'm hoping that since the water seems to be rising at the same rate all over the floor, just installing a perforated pit will be enough to reduce the water table under the entire floor. If I'm lucky, they'll be a layer of gravel under the slab so the water can move laterally to the pit easily, but I won't know until I break through the slab. Am I kidding myself thinking this will be enough? Should I be thinking about adding draintile as well? I really don't want to have to break up the floor if I don't have to. Is there an easy way to find out what I have in place around the footers now, if anything?

As for perforating the pit, I've seen several approaches. I've seen some say cut the whole bottom off and wrap with landsape fabric. Others say drill small holes all over so no large rocks can pass. Others say only drill top half of pit. I'm really not sure what to do. I like the idea of doing small holes, but was thinking I would like to have a few on the bottom so that when the water table is lower (most of the year) the pit will be dry. Thoughts on this?

Where should I set the float? Initially, I figured I'll let it pump pretty deep in the pit but I read somewhere about not setting the pump depth below the footers. The theory being if it pumps out the water too deep it could cause the soil under my footers to washout. PLus, the pump could run needlessly as well. Any suggestions? My father in law lives nearby and has his set to not come on until the water is within an inch of the floor, but that seem a bit too close to me. He has a stream in back of his house, and his water table is typically higher then mine all year though.

As for placement, I initially was going to break away the concrete around an old mystery capped floor drain I found, with the hope that it was attached to some type of perimeter drain, and I would place the pit there. But I talked to my neighbor who's been in his house for 40 plus years, and he said he had something similar, and it literally just ran into his front yard and terminated in the dirt. No drywell or anything. He capped his when as water started flowing up in the basement from it after heavy rain. Our city sewers are higher than my basement floor, so it can't go there. Besides it probably pre-dates my sewers (I used to have a septic system but it doesn't go there either). I've decided instead to place it roughly in pone of the back corners of the basement where the floor seems low.

Do I need to drill a relief hole in the discharge pipe to make sure the pump doesn't airlock? I saw something about this, but not sure I understand it. My thinking is if I set the float properly, it can't run dry and airlock, but maybe I'm missing something.

Lastly, as for the discharge piping, is it better to go through the foundation, or the rim joist? I could exit probably 1.5' lower if I go through foundation, but in either case it's not a great height it's be pumping to. Either way I'll be piping to 4" PVC running to the street.

Really, any advice, tips suggestions etc would be welcomed

pkovo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 09:52 PM   #2
Master Plumber Lon
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 30
Send a message via Yahoo to lonsplumbing
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


I have a few Questions for you. How high is the grade around the house. Is it lower then the street. Does it pitch away from the house. Do you have gutters,do you have drain tiles that drain away from the house.How old is the house.

lonsplumbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:09 PM   #3
Master Plumber Lon
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 30
Send a message via Yahoo to lonsplumbing
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


First find a wall in the basement thats open with no piping showing or supports in the way. Brake the cement out along the wall ,one foot out all the way,then dig a foot or two down. See for your self if there is any drain tile. If it is a old house it will be clay piping like pots for plants.If newer than the 70s it will be plastic.They may be clogged with sand or roots. Sometimes the floor drains are tied into them too.This is what you want to tie into your pit.Use a tee fitting on the piping.If there is no piping you want to install piping around the whole basment walls.And then tie it into your pit.Pipe it up and then out usually thru the wood 2x10 or 2x8 just above the cement wall with a 2in hole saw.Now on the out side piping use 3in this is plenty. Start at 3 foot deep then pitch it down grade to were you want it to go.

Last edited by lonsplumbing; 08-04-2009 at 10:13 PM.
lonsplumbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


I've been told house built in 1945-1952, no one knows for certain. I think '45 is probably close to accurate.

Grade around house is pretty good. My backyard is mostly level. Close to the house the grade slopes slightly away from foundation. No puddling anywhere near house, or water running towards house during rain. House sits about 4-5' higher than street.

However there is one grading problem. I have is a small patio area between the house and the garage next to my breezeway. It's pitched towards the foundation, and I know water is flows towards the house there. I'm going to remove it and add fill there to get the proper grade. It's on the top of my long list of home projects.

All gutters are clear. All piped to the street. A portion of the piping is old orangberg pipe which I have to replace with schedule 40 before it fails on me, but they're completely clear and problem free now. trhey flow great. The outlet looked like a damn hose when we were getting that rain this weekend.

I have no idea if I have a perimeter drain system around my footers. I have no sump pit and my lot does not slope enough to gravity drain to daylight. However, there is a spot in my basement floor that has an area that has been patched. It has a 1.5" capped steel or galvanized pipe there. like some type of primitive floor drain. I initially thought maybe an old sump pit that was sealed, but kind of doubt that now. I had started a thread on it a while back, but didn't find out too much. Had some pics there though...

can anyone identify this mystery basement plumbing???
pkovo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:31 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


Quote:
Originally Posted by lonsplumbing View Post
First find a wall in the basement thats open with no piping showing or supports in the way. Brake the cement out along the wall ,one foot out all the way,then dig a foot or two down. See for your self if there is any drain tile. If it is a old house it will be clay piping like pots for plants.If newer than the 70s it will be plastic.They may be clogged with sand or roots. Sometimes the floor drains are tied into them too.This is what you want to tie into your pit.Use a tee fitting on the piping.If there is no piping you want to install piping around the whole basment walls.And then tie it into your pit.Pipe it up and then out usually thru the wood 2x10 or 2x8 just above the cement wall with a 2in hole saw.Now on the out side piping use 3in this is plenty. Start at 3 foot deep then pitch it down grade to were you want it to go.
I was under the impression that if I have draintile, it would be along the outside of the footer. Would it be on the inside? If I broke out the floor along the wall as you suggest, would I be able to tell if the draintile is on the outside?
pkovo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:35 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


Here's a pic of the mystry drain. It's a couple feet from my back basement wall, and a few feet from the end wall. The pipe goes down maybe 7", then makes a 90 degree bend towards the front of the house. I believe there used to be a washer in this part of the basement, and wonder if it drained into this. Maybe it went to a drywell.

pkovo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:45 PM   #7
Master Plumber Lon
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 30
Send a message via Yahoo to lonsplumbing
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


Most drain tiles are on the inside and outside.
lonsplumbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2009, 10:48 PM   #8
Master Plumber Lon
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: michigan
Posts: 30
Send a message via Yahoo to lonsplumbing
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


You wont know were the plug go's unless you dig it up.You cant be scared to dig and get a little dirty.
lonsplumbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2009, 09:08 PM   #9
The Hamptons Waterproofer
 
Inside Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: East Hampton, NY
Posts: 2
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


I have seen this several times and they were well lines that were capped off to prevent water migration back into the house. If public water was brought into the house and they abandoned the original well and left a cap flush with the finished floor elevation.
Inside Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2009, 07:26 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,862
Default

Advice for adding sump pit/pump


One drain tile system just outside the foundation perimeter is preferred and sufficient. Just inside the foundation is done after the house is built if none was put outside the foundation originally or the system outside failed, say, due to eventual accumulation of dirt.

__________________
Stop wasting time re-adjusting the pattern. Have several lawn sprinklers, one for each pattern.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Drainage & Sump Pump Advice FredAt Building & Construction 3 06-11-2009 09:14 AM
Why is My Sump Dry? kwilliam10 Plumbing 2 05-03-2009 07:49 AM
Sump pump drainage problem sk8z Plumbing 6 11-29-2008 10:09 PM
Sewer gas smell in basement from sump pump mirage212 Plumbing 15 10-23-2008 06:09 PM
Sump Pump Design handy man88 Plumbing 2 10-04-2008 09:48 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.