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-   -   Advice for adding sump pit/pump (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/advice-adding-sump-pit-pump-50274/)

pkovo 08-04-2009 09:41 PM

Advice for adding sump pit/pump
 
OK, I've reluctantly come to the conclusion I need to add a sump pit to my basement due to an occaisionally high water table. I bought a liner (22" deep, 18" diameter). I ordered a cast iron 1/3 HP Zoeller non-automatic pump, a check valve, and a Vertical Master float switch after reasearching online and finding this is a good setup. I am making an airtight lid for the sump so my radon remediation system will still work. I've got all the equipment, and am not too worried about doing the install, but I do have quite a few questions on the details and would appreciate any/all advice feedback.

First, I have no idea if I have perimeter drains around my foundation, so I wasn't planning on tying into any. I know once the water hits my floor level, it shows itself all over different spots in the floor, not just in one area. I'm hoping that since the water seems to be rising at the same rate all over the floor, just installing a perforated pit will be enough to reduce the water table under the entire floor. If I'm lucky, they'll be a layer of gravel under the slab so the water can move laterally to the pit easily, but I won't know until I break through the slab. Am I kidding myself thinking this will be enough? Should I be thinking about adding draintile as well? I really don't want to have to break up the floor if I don't have to. Is there an easy way to find out what I have in place around the footers now, if anything?

As for perforating the pit, I've seen several approaches. I've seen some say cut the whole bottom off and wrap with landsape fabric. Others say drill small holes all over so no large rocks can pass. Others say only drill top half of pit. I'm really not sure what to do. I like the idea of doing small holes, but was thinking I would like to have a few on the bottom so that when the water table is lower (most of the year) the pit will be dry. Thoughts on this?

Where should I set the float? Initially, I figured I'll let it pump pretty deep in the pit but I read somewhere about not setting the pump depth below the footers. The theory being if it pumps out the water too deep it could cause the soil under my footers to washout. PLus, the pump could run needlessly as well. Any suggestions? My father in law lives nearby and has his set to not come on until the water is within an inch of the floor, but that seem a bit too close to me. He has a stream in back of his house, and his water table is typically higher then mine all year though.

As for placement, I initially was going to break away the concrete around an old mystery capped floor drain I found, with the hope that it was attached to some type of perimeter drain, and I would place the pit there. But I talked to my neighbor who's been in his house for 40 plus years, and he said he had something similar, and it literally just ran into his front yard and terminated in the dirt. No drywell or anything. He capped his when as water started flowing up in the basement from it after heavy rain. Our city sewers are higher than my basement floor, so it can't go there. Besides it probably pre-dates my sewers (I used to have a septic system but it doesn't go there either). I've decided instead to place it roughly in pone of the back corners of the basement where the floor seems low.

Do I need to drill a relief hole in the discharge pipe to make sure the pump doesn't airlock? I saw something about this, but not sure I understand it. My thinking is if I set the float properly, it can't run dry and airlock, but maybe I'm missing something.

Lastly, as for the discharge piping, is it better to go through the foundation, or the rim joist? I could exit probably 1.5' lower if I go through foundation, but in either case it's not a great height it's be pumping to. Either way I'll be piping to 4" PVC running to the street.

Really, any advice, tips suggestions etc would be welcomed

lonsplumbing 08-04-2009 09:52 PM

water problem
 
I have a few Questions for you. How high is the grade around the house. Is it lower then the street. Does it pitch away from the house. Do you have gutters,do you have drain tiles that drain away from the house.How old is the house.

lonsplumbing 08-04-2009 10:09 PM

Draining
 
First find a wall in the basement thats open with no piping showing or supports in the way. Brake the cement out along the wall ,one foot out all the way,then dig a foot or two down. See for your self if there is any drain tile. If it is a old house it will be clay piping like pots for plants.If newer than the 70s it will be plastic.They may be clogged with sand or roots. Sometimes the floor drains are tied into them too.This is what you want to tie into your pit.Use a tee fitting on the piping.If there is no piping you want to install piping around the whole basment walls.And then tie it into your pit.Pipe it up and then out usually thru the wood 2x10 or 2x8 just above the cement wall with a 2in hole saw.Now on the out side piping use 3in this is plenty. Start at 3 foot deep then pitch it down grade to were you want it to go.

pkovo 08-04-2009 10:22 PM

I've been told house built in 1945-1952, no one knows for certain. I think '45 is probably close to accurate.

Grade around house is pretty good. My backyard is mostly level. Close to the house the grade slopes slightly away from foundation. No puddling anywhere near house, or water running towards house during rain. House sits about 4-5' higher than street.

However there is one grading problem. I have is a small patio area between the house and the garage next to my breezeway. It's pitched towards the foundation, and I know water is flows towards the house there. I'm going to remove it and add fill there to get the proper grade. It's on the top of my long list of home projects.

All gutters are clear. All piped to the street. A portion of the piping is old orangberg pipe which I have to replace with schedule 40 before it fails on me, but they're completely clear and problem free now. trhey flow great. The outlet looked like a damn hose when we were getting that rain this weekend.

I have no idea if I have a perimeter drain system around my footers. I have no sump pit and my lot does not slope enough to gravity drain to daylight. However, there is a spot in my basement floor that has an area that has been patched. It has a 1.5" capped steel or galvanized pipe there. like some type of primitive floor drain. I initially thought maybe an old sump pit that was sealed, but kind of doubt that now. I had started a thread on it a while back, but didn't find out too much. Had some pics there though...

http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/can-an...lumbing-39725/

pkovo 08-04-2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonsplumbing (Post 310692)
First find a wall in the basement thats open with no piping showing or supports in the way. Brake the cement out along the wall ,one foot out all the way,then dig a foot or two down. See for your self if there is any drain tile. If it is a old house it will be clay piping like pots for plants.If newer than the 70s it will be plastic.They may be clogged with sand or roots. Sometimes the floor drains are tied into them too.This is what you want to tie into your pit.Use a tee fitting on the piping.If there is no piping you want to install piping around the whole basment walls.And then tie it into your pit.Pipe it up and then out usually thru the wood 2x10 or 2x8 just above the cement wall with a 2in hole saw.Now on the out side piping use 3in this is plenty. Start at 3 foot deep then pitch it down grade to were you want it to go.

I was under the impression that if I have draintile, it would be along the outside of the footer. Would it be on the inside? If I broke out the floor along the wall as you suggest, would I be able to tell if the draintile is on the outside?

pkovo 08-04-2009 10:35 PM

Here's a pic of the mystry drain. It's a couple feet from my back basement wall, and a few feet from the end wall. The pipe goes down maybe 7", then makes a 90 degree bend towards the front of the house. I believe there used to be a washer in this part of the basement, and wonder if it drained into this. Maybe it went to a drywell.

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...2-44wks030.jpg

lonsplumbing 08-04-2009 10:45 PM

drain tiles
 
Most drain tiles are on the inside and outside.

lonsplumbing 08-04-2009 10:48 PM

plug
 
You wont know were the plug go's unless you dig it up.You cant be scared to dig and get a little dirty.

Inside Edge 09-19-2009 09:08 PM

I have seen this several times and they were well lines that were capped off to prevent water migration back into the house. If public water was brought into the house and they abandoned the original well and left a cap flush with the finished floor elevation.

AllanJ 09-20-2009 07:26 AM

One drain tile system just outside the foundation perimeter is preferred and sufficient. Just inside the foundation is done after the house is built if none was put outside the foundation originally or the system outside failed, say, due to eventual accumulation of dirt.


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