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-   -   Adding a new water line to dishwasher and fridge? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/adding-new-water-line-dishwasher-fridge-5625/)

PMichaud 12-31-2006 02:06 PM

Adding a new water line to dishwasher and fridge?
 
I'm really tired of contractors in my area either trying to take me for a ride, or simply being 95% unreliable, so I'm considering doing some plumbing work myself. I don't think it's complex work, but that's why I'm asking here. I live in a house with relatively new plumbing, and access to a crawl space where the downstairs pipes run. Here's what I want to do:

1) Add a water line to supply a dishwasher. There is a sink right next to the area that I want to add the line.

2) Add a refridgerator water supply across the room from that dishwasher.




From what I can tell, this is pretty simple to do. I just need to shut off the water supply to the house, then cut into the supply pipes and add the extra pipe for the supplies... but I'm nervous because I don't know the pitfalls. What are things I need to be careful of or simply bear in mind when I'm adding new portions of pipe?

I'm also not 100% sure what the best way to actually attach the pipe is. Most of the pipe is metal, but I don't really have any specialized tools for plumbing, so soldering them back together isn't a good bet. I'd rather cut them with a reciprocating saw, then adhere a PVC t-junction and pipe to it... but again, I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

I've had a lot of trouble finding information about this, and I don't know anyone I can ask, so I really apprieciate any help you guys can offer. Thanks!

Ron The Plumber 12-31-2006 04:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
No soldering needed, use what is called an ez-connect seen below,

Get two one to connect to the hot side of shut off under kitchen sink 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8 Tee, and one to connect cold side of shut off under kitchen sink 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/4 tee.

Now drill two holes to run line to fridge one in cabinet under sink and one behind the fridge, run 1/4" copper tubing from under sink through holes and make the connections, turn on cold check for leaks.

No get a dishwasher supply line and connect this to the hot, drill hole to feed line to DW and connect, trun on, check for leaks.

Hope this helped.

More questions just ask away.

747 01-01-2007 07:11 AM

Thats not a expensive job if you want to hire a plumber. Under a 100 dollars in my oppion. Make sure on that water line to fridge you leave plenty on slack behind it. Enough to pull fridge out for servicing and cleaning. If your doing it your self. I would think 20 dollars for everything you need.

PMichaud 01-01-2007 09:51 AM

Thanks a lot guys, I think that helped quite a bit.

I have a guy coming out to look at it, and if he gives me an estimate around there, I might let him do it, but somehow I doubt he will -- call me cynical 8)

Also, I kind of want to try my hand at it, so that I have an idea of what I'm doing so that I can try installing a tankless water heater on my own. There are only a couple pipes running out of those things, and I can do the electrical, so maybe I just need to get my feet wet (plumbing pun).

majakdragon 01-01-2007 04:33 PM

The fitting Ron showed you should solve the frig and dishwasher problem with ease. A tankless heater is a different animal all together. Be very careful AND informed before you buy a tankless. I have seen too many people complain after either having one installed or doing it themselves. Warranty usually is only good when installed by a factory authorized installer. There is also a problem with a lot of pumbers not wanting to work on them. They are a little more complex than a typical water heater.

jpplumber 01-01-2007 06:14 PM

I am not a tankless expert but from what i've seen most require a larger gas supply than what is already in place for your tank heater, gas is my cheapest utility bill (I live in Texas) and I would have to save a boat load of gas to justify the cost differance of a tank vs. tankless. The dishwasher addition may work with the add on suggested but if you mean to add aice line ACCROSS (is there water supply in the wall next to fridge) the room you may need to connect in the attic somewhere or off the waterheater and up and over. As far as pricing, I suppose it varies from area to area to call a plumber out. We charge $83 for the first half hour and $96 a hour thereafter....but most plumbers will come out and talk it over for nothing and give you an estimate in writing. You would be very fortunate if $100 covered what you are suggesting....edit: also pvc pipe is not allowed on hot water lines, you can use cpvc but when you say metal pipe and recipricating saws and not having proper tools it makes me nervous.

747 01-02-2007 10:40 AM

I bet if he lived in Eugene Orgeon Ron would do it for around 100.00 dollars

KUIPORNG 01-02-2007 03:06 PM

sometimes existing supply to faucet is by soldering rather than those screwing... that happened to me in my washroom faucet.... well for that you need to cut the pipe and connect those screw types connector like above ... still no soldering but you need to cut pipe... which is not a big deal either if you have the equipment....

PMichaud 01-02-2007 03:18 PM

Quote:

I am not a tankless expert but from what i've seen most require a larger gas supply than what is already in place for your tank heater, gas is my cheapest utility bill (I live in Texas) and I would have to save a boat load of gas to justify the cost differance of a tank vs. tankless.
I'm thinking of an electric unit, which a lot of people say isn't as good/efficient as gas, but I get plenty of mixed messages about that, and the primary reason for the switch isn't efficiency, it's that the space I have for the heater isn't that big, and it's sort of in my kitchen, so I think a wall-mounted tankless unit would be smaller and more attractive -- I'd be able to have a cabinet around it.

Quote:

The dishwasher addition may work with the add on suggested but if you mean to add aice line ACCROSS (is there water supply in the wall next to fridge) the room you may need to connect in the attic somewhere or off the waterheater and up and over.
Why, what's wrong with what the others suggested? It'll only go maybe 12 feet (under the floor), and I can't imagine that it would suck that much water? I could run a supply to it from the heater, which is in the same room (again, under the floor), but that would mean cutting pipes and all that stuff that makes you nervous!


Quote:

As far as pricing, I suppose it varies from area to area to call a plumber out. We charge $83 for the first half hour and $96 a hour thereafter....but most plumbers will come out and talk it over for nothing and give you an estimate in writing. You would be very fortunate if $100 covered what you are suggesting....
Out of curiosity, how can plumbers charge so much? Is it a trade association thing that doesn't allow the trade to have too many people? My company charges less than you per hour (in the computer industry, very technical work) and we're a little on the high end, so it seems to me that someone must be controlling the supply of labor to maintain rates like that.

Quote:

edit: also pvc pipe is not allowed on hot water lines, you can use cpvc but when you say metal pipe and recipricating saws and not having proper tools it makes me nervous.
You're not the only one who's nervous! Good to know about the PVC, hopfully I won't have to use it at all, just copper tubing.

KUIPORNG 01-02-2007 03:23 PM

How can plumber charge so much? I know this one:

because most regular house hold people scare of water leaking as it means major repairs... I am used to be one of them... not anymore when I finished my last plumbing project... but I had the idea of being a plumber if I have to choose all the areas to be in contracting world if I happened to be out of work.... as I know it will have the best return in terms of effort being put in... I think it is one of those you can spend very little time but make quite handsome money.... ... this all supply and demand... many people need plumber and they have the market to charge the $$

well... if you are talking about working as computing professional and salarywise speaking... I understand they make less than a plumber easily... but if you talked about charge per hour to customers from a computer company... they can charge much more ... somthing like thousand dollar per half day... and there is no hourly charge... one hour means half day is not uncommon... the bottom line is... the BOSS always charge a lot...

Ron The Plumber 01-02-2007 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMichaud (Post 28633)
Why, what's wrong with what the others suggested? It'll only go maybe 12 feet (under the floor), and I can't imagine that it would suck that much water? I could run a supply to it from the heater, which is in the same room (again, under the floor), but that would mean cutting pipes and all that stuff that makes you nervous!

Nothing wrong with running icemaker line from under your kitchen sink, to under the floor to the back of fridge. We do this all the time.

jpplumber 01-02-2007 06:29 PM

Quote:

Why, what's wrong with what the others suggested? It'll only go maybe 12 feet (under the floor), and I can't imagine that it would suck that much water? I could run a supply to it from the heater, which is in the same room (again, under the floor), but that would mean cutting pipes and all that stuff that makes you nervous!
Nothing at all if you can run it under the floor, I simply don't know conditions you are dealing with and I assumed you had a slab foundation as most homes in Texas do, (must of missed the part where you said you had a crawl space) and up and over is more cost effective that breaking concrete, very rare to see a basement, and only older homes tend to be pier and beam construction around here.

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how can plumbers charge so much? Is it a trade association thing that doesn't allow the trade to have too many people? My company charges less than you per hour (in the computer industry, very technical work) and we're a little on the high end, so it seems to me that someone must be controlling the supply of labor to maintain rates like that.
This is not my own company, I'm simply an empolyee, but this is what the market will bear in our area of Fort Worth. Many companies charge more and some less than this ($83 first 1/2 hr. 96 ea. additional hr.) but the large yellow page ads are very expensive...so the larger the ad the more the company is likely to charge. Labor unions are very weak in Texas but we are required to be licenced by the state and carry liability insurance as well as maintain trucks and pay the gas. Also plumbing is a very physically demanding job, I used to be a draftman and many times I miss that old desk.

Quote:

You're not the only one who's nervous! Good to know about the PVC, hopfully I won't have to use it at all, just copper tubing.
I have no problem with people trying things themselves..I found this site because I was looking to get my furnace going again...but some people make things sound too easy without knowing all the perameters involved, the picture and tee sizes RonthePlumber asked you to pick up assume you have 3/8 compression stops, probably the most common but in Texas we have many flare connections and when I lived in Calif. we always used 1/2 x 1/2 supply lines and matching stops .... and special tools, a basin wrench is generally necessary under a sink if you are changing the supply line to the threaded connection on the faucet. And when you said you had metal pipe it really sounded like you had no idea what you were looking at and I have to assume galvanized piping, but you also said it was relativly new so perhaps not, and reciprocating blades (and hacksaws)make nasty work of copper tubing, use tubing cutters.Good luck

gitnerdun 01-02-2007 09:20 PM

What a load of crap! You sit there in front of your PC ranting about how simple the job is and you can do it yourself. Then out of the other side of your mouth, you are obviously clueless as to how to do the job properly. Then you have the nerve to question why a plumber makes what he does! Do you have 50k+ tied up in a stocked truck? Or how about 2 million+ in insurance? Overhead? in computers? c-mon, get over it, hire a guy who is licensed to do the job correctly. Plumbers bust azz everyday for others and will more than likely have to retire early due to health issues.

This why I hesitate on giving homeowners advice, they usually do something hokey and then sell the house to some unsuspecting buyer and then brag to their yuppy friends about how much $$ they made on the deal. Free estimates and instructions don't happen anymore. Estimates, I charge for.

So in conclusion, why don't you work an extra few hours and spend the extra wages on a qualified plumber. Or you could size up the job on Friday, go to the home center on Sat, screw it all up on Sat and Sun, and have your wife call the plumber on Mon while you are at work.

If you do the job yourself, at least pay the pro to inspect. Because if you flood something we all suffer the increases in insurance rates.

PMichaud 01-03-2007 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitnerdun (Post 28686)
What a load of crap! You sit there in front of your PC ranting about how simple the job is and you can do it yourself. Then out of the other side of your mouth, you are obviously clueless as to how to do the job properly. Then you have the nerve to question why a plumber makes what he does! Do you have 50k+ tied up in a stocked truck? Or how about 2 million+ in insurance? Overhead? in computers? c-mon, get over it, hire a guy who is licensed to do the job correctly. Plumbers bust azz everyday for others and will more than likely have to retire early due to health issues.

...

So in conclusion, why don't you work an extra few hours and spend the extra wages on a qualified plumber. Or you could size up the job on Friday, go to the home center on Sat, screw it all up on Sat and Sun, and have your wife call the plumber on Mon while you are at work.

If you do the job yourself, at least pay the pro to inspect. Because if you flood something we all suffer the increases in insurance rates.

I'd really rather not get involved in this, but please don't say unfair things to me. I didn't 'rant' about easy the work was, I said that a) contrators often try to 'take me for a ride,' otherwise known as price gouging, and b) they are horribly unreliable. I have scheduled appointments with 3 different plumbing companies for an estimate. Only one of them ever bothered to show up at the time I scheduled with them, or even call me back. One other one told me over the phone that they charge, for example, $375 to hook up a normal water heater, assuming the plubming is already there and I have the unit. That's $375 to hook up a hot and a cold line... and I'd be responsible for the electric.

It's not unique to plumbing. I had some electric work done months and months ago. I call them every few days to ask them when they're coming to finish. It's always in a couple days... but that never happens. I still don't have an power in my family room.

I had a GC talk to me about some remodelling. He came by for a couple minutes twice, and despite promises to get things done, he never bothered to show up or call. I ended up doing the plans myself, and finding an architect who looked them over and passed them to an engineer for the low, low cost of only $500 -- of course, now that I need to ask him a question about something in the plans, he hasn't returned my phonecalls for two weeks.

I know I'm not a horrible guy to be around, and I don't smell bad, and I'm not stingy, nor do I give people a hard time about payment. These people are simply unreliable and unprofessional. So you're damn right I'm going to do all that I can do myself, because over and over I've been burned.

When I find someone reliable, I'm very loyal and I pay well -- for example, my mechanic is fair, honest, and reliable. I ALWAYS go to him. I have yet to find anyone who is fair, honest, and reliable in ANY of the trades, electrician, plumber, gc, architect, it doesn't matter. So please don't give me a hard time about looking for other options.

majakdragon 01-03-2007 04:56 PM

Our purpose here is to help you do the jobs you want/need to do yourself. Every occupation has a percentage of bad apples and you seem to have found them. As a Plumber myself, I figure I get paid the "big bucks" for my knowledge. I spent 5 years as an apprentice, going to school a few nights a week and working at the trade by day (for half of what Journeymen make). Then I had to take a State test. I own most of my own tools. I help out in Forums because there are a lot of things that can be done by the DIYers. Ask whatever you need to know and we will give you the answers.


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