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-   -   6" house sewer into 4" lateral line (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/6-house-sewer-into-4-lateral-line-178240/)

stevekem 04-27-2013 08:44 PM

6" house sewer into 4" lateral line
 
Hello all,

Just purchased a single family foreclosure and discovered the house sewer in basement floor is 6" clay but the lateral line running from house to sewer main is 4" PVC. Apparently the former owners replaced the lateral line some time ago and there have been sewage backup problems ever since.

So now I have to run new 4" PVC in basement floor and tie into this existing 4" lateral line.


I just had a few questions about the existing lateral line for you pros out there before I start (please see pic):

1) Does the trap appear to be correct (besides replacing fitting with hole in it)?

2) Do I need a fresh air vent AND cleanout in lateral line? If so where does the vent go (before/after cleanout, before/after trap)?

3) There is a 3" line teed into the 4" lateral currently (this is for kitchen sink). Can this stay or do all underground lines need to be 4"?

4) Is anything else missing in lateral line?

http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/52_penn_lateral.jpg

ben's plumbing 04-27-2013 08:54 PM

wow wonder why there is sewage problems..... would need to see alot more to say for certian what to do ...but for starters that whole mess need to be cut out.....that is a poor excuse for a trap....we never lay tees on there side and did i understand when you said ..inside is 6" clay into 4":huh:

TheEplumber 04-27-2013 08:55 PM

See bold comments within quoted text
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevekem (Post 1168443)
Hello all,

Just purchased a single family foreclosure and discovered the house sewer in basement floor is 6" clay but the lateral line running from house to sewer main is 4" PVC. Apparently the former owners replaced the lateral line some time ago and there have been sewage backup problems ever since.

So now I have to run new 4" PVC in basement floor and tie into this existing 4" lateral line.


I just had a few questions about the existing lateral line for you pros out there before I start (please see pic):

1) Does the trap appear to be correct (besides replacing fitting with hole in it)?House traps are outlawed under UPC- surprised to see one in your line- I'd yank it

2) Do I need a fresh air vent AND cleanout in lateral line? If so where does the vent go (before/after cleanout, before/after trap)?
Clean out required for me.
3) There is a 3" line teed into the 4" lateral currently (this is for kitchen sink). Can this stay or do all underground lines need to be 4"?The tee should be a wye. Tees are not allowed in the position. Minimum line size = 2"

4) Is anything else missing in lateral line?Was it ever inspected? It would not have passed around my parts


stevekem 04-27-2013 09:04 PM

Thanks guys for the replies... Yes, the inside is 6" clay going into this 4" PVC. Also there was another trap (original) right before the 4" trap as well. Below is another pic showing the connection before we broke the clay a bit.

This lateral line was not inspected but I have to prepare it for the inspector to come and that's why I'm verifying what I need to do to correct it.

I had a local plumber out to cam the lateral line (thats how we discovered it was 4") and he said a trap is required on sewer line, can it vary in different parts of PA? I am near Pittsburgh.

If a trap is required, how should it look like?

http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/52_penn_lateral2.jpg

Ghostmaker 04-27-2013 09:06 PM

You only need a house trap if your downspouts and sewer all go to the treatment plant. That is called a combined sewer. If that is not the case remove it. While your at it also remove any tee fitting in the horizontal posistion and replace it with a Y fitting and a street 45.

Your inspector might not approve schdule 40 PVC outside. They sometimes prefer the thin wall stuff. You should call and find out.

stevekem 04-27-2013 09:42 PM

Thanks Ghostmaker... Our borough requires the downspouts to be separate from sewer...

So besides removing the trap and replacing the tee with a wye/45, anything else need done to bring to code?

I'm not sure if this is sch 40 or not, see pic below for closeup of pipe...


http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/52_penn_lateral3.jpg

LateralConcepts 04-27-2013 11:31 PM

Wow that's a mess. Simple fix though. Are there traps on all of the other fixtures inside the house?

Not sure about code where you're located, but the 30/34 should be fine outside.

LateralConcepts 04-27-2013 11:39 PM

I would suggest cutting it all out from downstream of the PVC "trap", back to the old clay coming out from under the foundation (including the clay trap), upstream of the 3" sanitary tee, and replace it all with 4" PVC (30/34 or SDR35). Replace the cleanout with a 4" WYE just as it is. Replace the 3" san. tee with a WYE and you should be "good to go". Literally. Check with your local AHJ (inspector) for what's required.

joes plumbing 04-28-2013 06:08 AM

That first trap to the left looks like whoever did that abortion used 45 degree fittings to get up to the angle of clay line . It's to much of an offset to be inline with clay. That's why they installed the clean out try a 22-1/2 degree. Then wye and 45 combo and replace clay trap with 4" pvc or whatever material that is.

ben's plumbing 04-28-2013 06:30 AM

yep house trap is required in the pittsburgh and surrounding areas...should install new house trap then cleanout with fresh air as far as the kitchen install wye and 45 ...ben sr

Javiles 04-28-2013 08:55 AM

Not being familiar with the plumbing in your area i have a couple questions

1 whats down stream of the Micky mouse trap ?
2 am i looking at two incoming lines into that LAT ? one from the original home the second from an add on maybe ?

down here minimum size for a lateral is 6 inches is it possible that you have a larger line at some point past that newer PVC ? we do use traps but why have two of them unless you've added a new branch. that mess looks like a tap someone cut in to the clay and went pvc. sorry couldn't help just asking.

stevekem 04-28-2013 05:57 PM

Thanks for all the help.... Downstream of the trap runs straight into main sewer. The 3" line tapping in via tee is from an addition added on.

Regarding the trap/cleanout/fresh air vent, should it look like as shown in pic below (except for it would be outside)?

If so, is there a fitting like this available or is it built using various different fittings?

Is the trap portion built using 45's or do they sell 4" trap fittings?

Does the trap/cleanout/fresh air vent have to be within so many feet of house outside?

http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/cleanout.gif

stevekem 04-30-2013 06:34 PM

I talked to the sewer authority today and got the specs on what they require.

Can anyone tell me where I can find a "handhole trap" as shown in diagram below?

I searched online but couldn't find anyone selling this. Is it called something else?


http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/lateral_specs.jpg

dan1554 04-30-2013 10:00 PM

Congrats on the house purchase! I am in the Mount Pleasant area, and we just converted from septic to sewage this past December, and a trap was required by the township as well. The traps the plumber installed I believe he referred to as a "running" trap, but I may be wrong. I pulled my paperwork from the conversion, and looked at the pictures I took, and the trap looks the same as the one on your picture, but it is only called a trap on the diagrams I have. I am sorry I don't have an exact answer, but hopefully this helps.

stevekem 04-30-2013 11:08 PM

Thanks Dan for the reply. I'm getting some results when searching for "running trap" so maybe that's a more common term for them.

Can anyone verify if it is up to code to make the trap using (1) 4" PVC Return Bend, (1) 4" Sanitary Tee and (1) 4" Street 90 just like my drawing below?


http://home.comcast.net/~sk77/running_trap.jpg


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