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-   -   2 1/2 storey remodel 4 bed, 1 bath to 7 bed, 5 bath (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/2-1-2-storey-remodel-4-bed-1-bath-7-bed-5-bath-150269/)

qc_riderfan87 07-14-2012 06:52 PM

2 1/2 storey remodel 4 bed, 1 bath to 7 bed, 5 bath
 
I'm trying to figure out if I really need 1 1/4'' copper distribution line for my extensive remodel of a 2 1/2 storey house

Details:
- 3/4'' CTS HDPE (poly-ethylene) service line entering house from under foundation with 14' of slack. concrete basement slab has not been completed.

- No water meter or valve, yet.

- Removed existing plumbing.

- point of entry of service line (SL) to farthest away fixture is >60'. (margin of error 20%)

- Fixtures incl. water heater to be clustered on 4 floors on opposite side as SL POE.

- 2200+ sq ft, approx 840 sq ft. in bsmt and main, 2nd 720 sq ft., TOP is 540 sq ft.

- BSMT fixtures -> D/W, K/S, 3 pc bath, 2x silcocks, water heater
- MAIN fixtures -> 3pc bath, C/W, K/S, D/W*
- 2ND fixtures -> 2x 3 pc bath, C/W*, Urinal*
- TOP fixtures -> 3 pc bath, silcock*

* - may be omitted

so according to my book i got 14.3 HOT fixture units, 27.5 COLD fixture units.

- the total length of pipe going vertically from POE is 27' 9"

- municipal water pressure is unknown

- according to my book i may need to use 1 1/4'' copper$$. (PVC?? )

- i may also need booster pump

- should all main line be 1 1/4' for all 60' and branching to 1/2'' or could i have 1 1/4 progressively step down to 1'' then 3/4'' for 2ND and TOP floors.

- i would like to have nice water pressure, and I maybe rent it out to workers, and a good shower is important to those guys!

- so in all there will be 6-7 bedrooms.=> 2 in basement, 4 on 2nd, 1 (master?) on top

I thought I had more details to add but i'm blanking out now, any questions just ask.

TheEplumber 07-14-2012 07:42 PM

You need to determine your water pressure to properly size your piping, but you step down your pipe size according to the FU's being served. So there is no need to run 1 1/4" the whole length.

jaydevries 07-14-2012 07:58 PM

also look at maybe doing a manifold system or multiple manifold systems
1 1/4" pex is cheaper than copper

qc_riderfan87 07-14-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheEplumber (Post 965795)
You need to determine your water pressure to properly size your piping, but you step down your pipe size according to the FU's being served. So there is no need to run 1 1/4" the whole length.

i was thinking of using trunk + branch

1 1/4 pex i haven't seen in any stores, also the crimp tools don't typically do this size, so maybe shark bites?

jaydevries 07-14-2012 10:57 PM

1 inch is the largest in limited amount of box stores i have seen pex up to 2 "
i personally would check water pressure if you do not have a way ask your neighbor if he minds checking theirs.
you could run 1" to each floor then manifold or branch of from there
remember the area of 1/2" is approx .785, 3/4" is 1.767, and 1" is 3.14
so i know this is going to start a discusion but event with a 3/4 supply coming in if you increase to 1" in house and run the 60 feet you still get more volume to assist with quick usages like toilet, urinal and hand washing.
i have seen three bath house ran on 3/4 at 40 psi and all was good except the 40 gallon water heater not keeping up with 6 females in house :thumbup::whistling2:

qc_riderfan87 07-19-2012 01:54 PM

Thank you very much to all who replied and thank you for the real world information jay.

I talked to the town councilor, who happens to be a plumber I might add, he said the water pressure coming up to the house would be about 50 p.s.i.

So, I want to get my first bathroom on the main floor done, so I can start living there and finishing the rest of the house. My plan is to have a bathroom off the mudroom at the side entrance. I want to have a farm sink, toilet, shower stall, and small washer/dryer set. So can I go ahead and do the plumbing and plug up the ends. I think I need to use 1 1/4 but I'm only good for 32 F.U. according to my book visual guide to remodeling and construction.

drtbk4ever 07-19-2012 02:04 PM

Wow, rider fans in QC too. They are everywhere.

qc_riderfan87 07-19-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drtbk4ever (Post 969556)
Wow, rider fans in QC too. They are everywhere.

qc stands for queen city!!! as in the home of the riders. 3-0 baby!

drtbk4ever 07-19-2012 06:07 PM

LOL, OK got it. You must have loved the 17-1 drumming you gave my Esks.

jaydevries 07-19-2012 10:01 PM

if this is getting inspected you have to submit a plan to board first to get approval of water and drain system to start work.
are going to or the city allow you to tap main for a 1 1/4" pipe.
i personally would use 1 inch tap and to each floor then reduce down from there for each branch then if booster needed install at start of 1" near meter
also is a 1" or 1 1/4" meter available in you area
what did your town council "plumber" suggest

qc_riderfan87 07-20-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydevries (Post 969932)
if this is getting inspected you have to submit a plan to board first to get approval of water and drain system to start work.
are going to or the city allow you to tap main for a 1 1/4" pipe.
i personally would use 1 inch tap and to each floor then reduce down from there for each branch then if booster needed install at start of 1" near meter
also is a 1" or 1 1/4" meter available in you area
what did your town council "plumber" suggest

thank you.

I have not talked extensively with the town councillor.

I understand I need a plan, but I haven't drawn one, I don't know all the specifcations yet. I will submit the plan when I know the tubing size and routes. It's just a village, I suspect they would accept a plan drawn on a napkin, haha, if they needed one at all!

OK, to be clear, the water is run up to the house already it's 3/4 and it comes into my basement from under the footing.

I suspect that the WM is 3/4, from there I thought I can use a 3/4 x 1 1/4 reducer coupling to step up to a larger diameter for the trunk line. Is that possible-- I think I will have a huge drop in pressure, by how much I don't know, maybe I can get the village to turn up the pressure?

On writing this, It seems inevitable that I will need the pump or reduce the amount of fixtures.

I will research some more to see how much drop in pressure I can afford and followup, tonight.

qc_riderfan87 07-21-2012 01:18 AM

so adjusted for vertical rise of 330" (27.5ft) x (.5 for pressure lost) i get 50.0 psi - (13.75) = 36.25

so total run is ~59.3 (adjusted for fitting losses.)

and combined FU for hot and cold is 31.

Broken down: hot 14.3 cold 22.5

qc_riderfan87 07-24-2012 02:26 PM

4 Attachment(s)
pictures.

So I got this hose, what should I do with it:

either:

A) cut it off at poe install an elbow 90, use remaining poly, then make pex connection
B) bend it up on adjacent wall as far as I can without kinking hose and then starting with the pex in between joists

and of course, the WM and a pair of ball valves on either side, have to go in somewhere, and be accessible and have a way to hide them in the future.

also this area of the basement is where I planned to have a bedroom, eventually, but putting in the concrete and building a wall (on the new slab) on that wall isn`t an option, irregardless of the DWV being completed.

TheEplumber 07-24-2012 06:08 PM

Looks like its pretty long- I'd roll it up in a partition- such as bedroom/laundry. Then use an adapter and valve thats approved in your area. Then use the pex above ground. Avoid joints under the slab.

md2lgyk 07-25-2012 06:50 AM

I hope you don't have a septic system. You'll overload it for sure if you do.


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