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-   -   1/2 -> 1/4 valve leaks (http://www.diychatroom.com/f7/1-2-1-4-valve-leaks-167784/)

Red Squirrel 12-30-2012 03:38 PM

1/2 -> 1/4 valve leaks
 
2 Attachment(s)
I don't know how many times I've had to redo the 1/4 connection on this but no matter what, after a while, it always starts to leak. I even caulked the hell out of it and it still managed to spring a leak. I only use this in winter as it's for the humidifier. It's been ok for all of this winter, till recently. Noticed the leak today. Glad my basement is not finished or I'd be in a world of hurt right now.

How in the world would I go about making this connection more secure? The way it works is really weird, the plastic tube comes in bare, has a ring that goes on top (or do I need to force it inside? Is that what I'm doing wrong?) then the "cap" goes in with the tube passing through it and screws in. I think they call these compression fittings, but I really don't see how it's suppose to be holding the pipe in any way. There's not even any threading or crimping or anything. I shoved a whole bunch of teflon dope in there last time but it did not do anything as there is nothing really holding anything in place. I can just pull on the tube and it comes out. I only turn the valve a small amount otherwise it leaks no matter what.

This held up for all of this winter but decided to let go.

Any idea what I could be doing wrong, and how such fittings are suppose to work?

This is why I prefer electrical, no risk of big mess like this. :laughing: My last plumbing issue was much more serious, nearly lost all my server equipment.

Bondo 12-30-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

How in the world would I go about making this connection more secure? The way it works is really weird, the plastic tube comes in bare, has a ring that goes on top (or do I need to force it inside? Is that what I'm doing wrong?) then the "cap" goes in with the tube passing through it and screws in. I think they call these compression fittings, but I really don't see how it's suppose to be holding the pipe in any way. There's not even any threading or crimping or anything. I shoved a whole bunch of teflon dope in there last time but it did not do anything as there is nothing really holding anything in place. I can just pull on the tube and it comes out. I only turn the valve a small amount otherwise it leaks no matter what.
Ayuh,... 1st off, Quit usin' sealant on a compression fittin',....

It sounds like yer missin' a piece of it...

For the 1s I use,....
With the tubing squarely cut end, ya slip on the Nut, 'n the Compression Collar....
In the end of the tubin', ya push in a little brass sleeve, into the Id...

Down near the bottom of This page, is a 3 pic. essay, showin' how it's done,...

Only difference I see, is I use all brass, no plastic collar...

joecaption 12-30-2012 04:51 PM

Is that just clear plastic tubing your trying to use?
Wrong tubing for that type fitting.
Change it Nylaflow and it will work.
What you have is not made for pressure and needs a barbed syle fitting not a compression fitting.

SeniorSitizen 12-30-2012 05:11 PM

Back in the good old days manufacturers were good about printing instructions on the box for those that are just learning. If they did now I couldn't read their foreign language anyway.

So , I'll tell you what I remember. After all those parts are assembled, the tubing is stuffed in the valve as far as it will go and the nut run up finger tight, turn the hex nut 1 (one) round. In tight spots that would be 6 flats of the nut of course according to my old geometry teach.

Tip - a felt tip pen works real well to mark the stuffed tubing just behind the nut to see that it stays in as far as it was stuffed into the valve and a mark on a nut flat is a good indicator of (1) one round in inconvenient areas .

I've never used the internal sleeve on tubing of any kind and used plastic ferrules as well as brass on plastic tubing and never had a leak following the instructions on that old box. If you have the uncontrollable urge to put something somewhere, :no: put a drop of oil on the threads. Any kind, from a drop off of the car dip stick, to bar and chain oil, 3 in 1 or singer sewing machine oil.

oh'mike 12-30-2012 05:38 PM

I think Bond has the answer---possibly the wrong type of tube----brass or plastic insert into tip of tube---nylon ferrule---

if that is flexible tube like fish tank air hose--you need to replace that with stiff nylon type tubing.

oh'mike 12-30-2012 05:43 PM

You may be able to use a stainless steel braided water line for a fridge water line---that will have the connections on both ends already installed---Just a thought----

Red Squirrel 12-30-2012 05:50 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hmm so I'm not suppose to use clear tubing? That's what came with the humidifier, and the humidifier has it's own shark bite like fitting where it connects to.

I seem to have all the parts that are shown in that link though the plastic ring I have is actually metal (brass I would imagine).

Attached where the leak is specificly. Which kinda makes sense, since there's nothing that's really sealing that part. It does slide in tightly, but I'm sure the tube is not 100% round and there could be enough deform that it allows a leak. That's mostly where I had tried to shove caulk, but caulk does not stick that well on this surface, it was easy to remove. I'm sure there must be a way to do this without adhesive products.

ddawg16 12-30-2012 06:04 PM

There are supposed to be two parts to that....the little brass insert your showing and a farrel that goes over the tub between the tube and nut. When you tighten it down, the farrel compresses agains the tube. The insert in the tube gives the tube wall strength.

If no farrel....no workee......If you don't have it....I'm surprised it even worked in the first place.

BTW....have you considered just going copper?

SeniorSitizen 12-30-2012 06:27 PM

QUOTE:I'm sure there must be a way to do this without adhesive products.

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Unbelievable. I give up.

Red Squirrel 12-30-2012 08:09 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ddawg16 (Post 1082701)
There are supposed to be two parts to that....the little brass insert your showing and a farrel that goes over the tub between the tube and nut. When you tighten it down, the farrel compresses agains the tube. The insert in the tube gives the tube wall strength.

If no farrel....no workee......If you don't have it....I'm surprised it even worked in the first place.

BTW....have you considered just going copper?

This is the tube that comes with the humidifier, I probably have to use it as the fitting on the humidifier (like a shark bite) is designed for it. I have seen shark bites used on copper though, but I don't know how good of an idea it generally is.

I just took it apart, this is what I have. The white stuff is teflon dope and not caulk. The threaded part has teflon tape. The caulk was only added after the fact to try to stop the leak. It held up for a year so it's time for a more permanent solution. The leak is definitely where the tube goes inside, and not the threads.

I thought the ring was brass but guess it IS plastic after all. Oh and I meant to mention, this tube is stiff, it's not like medical tubing but more like pex.

TheEplumber 12-30-2012 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Squirrel (Post 1082807)
This is the tube that comes with the humidifier, I probably have to use it as the fitting on the humidifier (like a shark bite) is designed for it. I have seen shark bites used on copper though, but I don't know how good of an idea it generally is.

I just took it apart, this is what I have. The white stuff is teflon dope and not caulk. The threaded part has teflon tape. The caulk was only added after the fact to try to stop the leak. It held up for a year so it's time for a more permanent solution. The leak is definitely where the tube goes inside, and not the threads.

I thought the ring was brass but guess it IS plastic after all. Oh and I meant to mention, this tube is stiff, it's not like medical tubing but more like pex.

You do appear to have the correct assembly. If this is an on going issue I'd be finding another type of tubing- perhaps PEX or copper. Hopefully, the same OD so you won't have to replace fittings

oh'mike 12-30-2012 08:24 PM

Bad ferrule would be my guess----or you are using a nut with the ferrule built in and also using a ferrule designed for a plane nut---

Javiles 12-30-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairview (Post 1082723)
QUOTE:I'm sure there must be a way to do this without adhesive products.

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Unbelievable. I give up.

That the way i feel every other post:laughing:

Bondo 12-30-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh'mike (Post 1082815)
Bad ferrule would be my guess----or you are using a nut with the ferrule built in and also using a ferrule designed for a plane nut---

Ayuh,... What I see is, the insert ain't in far enough, 'n consequently, the tubing ain't into the fitting far enough...

The furrel does look crooked, 'n I'm just guessin' it mighta been over-tightened...

'n, No, no pipe dope or caulkin' is needed on these fittin's...

I use these things all the time on truck air systems, 'n leaks are rare,...
'n that's at 120 psi...

Over-tightening is usually what makes a properly assembled fitting leak...
or an unseen crack in the nut, from over-tightening...

Red Squirrel 12-30-2012 09:30 PM

Oh I pulled it out a bit just to show it, it was all the way to the end. So I don't have to use teflon or dope? How much torque roughly should I be giving it?

I was using one pair of pliers to hold the valve and another to tighten as hard as I could. Was hard to get it to go all the way, but maybe it's because I was using teflon tape. Wondering if it's just the thing of cleaning up and trying without any teflon. The furrel is the part that goes inside the pipe right? The end does look a bit rounded, is this a part I can buy separately? This would have probably came with the valve.

From what I've been told the pressure in my area is around 160PSI but I'd have to install a gauge to see for myself though. I know that every time the washing machine solenoid valves kick in it sounds like a truck is hitting the house. And that's with water hammer arrestors installed! I'd have to go around fastening the pipes better maybe.


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