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Old 11-23-2010, 05:49 PM   #1
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Totally infested with roaches..


I was working on a property that was totally infested with roaches. I guess the tenant that lives there didn't believe in cleaning. The place had so many roaches that when you open a cabinet, the roaches would literally fall out. I had to control the roaches, but the tenant wouldn't clean up and didn't want to move anything. So I had to use stuff that didn't require the tenant to move anything. To make a long story short, I used professional quality boric acid, professional quality roach gel, roach motels (from 99cents store), and Insect Growth regulator from Gentrol. After I installed all the roach control stuff, I came back 2 months later to inspect, I didn't see one live roach. It was incredible. I can't believe how well it worked. They still had roaches according to the tenant, but that was a giant improvement.

This is the first time I ever used Gentrol, so I think it was the Gentrol Insect Growth Regulator that did the miracle. I've use the other stuff in the past such as the boric acid, roach gel, and roach motels and I never had that much success.

Here's my question, the Gentrol Point Source was $35 for 20 pieces. This is way too expensive, costing over $50.00 per tenant if I include the price of the boric acid, gel, and motels.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/ge...urce-p-51.html

What I want to do is buy the Gentrol IGR Concentrate for $12.75 a bottle and dip a q-tip into the bottle and place the q-tip around the unit as if it was the Gentrol Point Source without the fancy case.

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/ge...ate-p-211.html

This would cut my cost by 66%. Does anyone know if this would work?


Last edited by stanlam; 11-24-2010 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:09 PM   #2
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Totally infested with roaches..


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Last edited by Jim F; 11-26-2010 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 09:41 PM   #3
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Totally infested with roaches..


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$50.00 per tenant is a good investment when you consider the alternative of vacant apartments.

Roaches, on the other hand, are a very poor investment.

Sorry, couldn't resist
You're right it's a good investment. However, we only have a budget on how much we can spend. We actually spend more money buying stuff to kill the roaches then hiring a professional because we do a better job. A professional only charge $25.00 per unit. Right now we are trying to cut cost because we are buying new appliances for the tenants, upgrading the landscaping, installing new asphalt, upgrading the laundry room, installing security camera....... and whatever money we can save from this can be applied to the other parts of the property. We have been running at zero vacancy for the last 20 years. However, if a tenant moves out, it gets re-rented in a month.

Last edited by stanlam; 11-24-2010 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:08 PM   #4
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Totally infested with roaches..


Removed.

Last edited by Jim F; 11-26-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 11-24-2010, 12:06 AM   #5
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Totally infested with roaches..


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I guess you missed the joke. Invested vs. infested.
sorry for the typo.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:33 AM   #6
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Totally infested with roaches..


We actually spend more money buying stuff to kill the roaches then hiring a professional because we do a better job.

If you are doing a better job than the professionals that you are hiring, maybe you need a different pro. Find ones that belong to pest control trade associations.

That said, Gentrol is an outstanding product, use it all the time, both Point Source and concentrate. The qtip idea is intriguing, but I'd be more confident with spraying. Use a small hand held trigger bottle for simplicity. Remember, the Point source is about 91% active ingredient, the concentrate is much less (don't remember % at the moment). Even used straight out of the bottle, you won't be close in %. When spraying gentrol you don't have to be very detailed or specific, just close. Gentrol is very active and will migrate (safely). The odor dissipates fast. Point source only needs to be applied every 3 months.

To see if Gentrol is working for you, look for immature roaches that have defects, such as blistering, crooked wings, etc.

Boric Acid: You don't need to use this every time. It is inorganic and will last until it gets cleaned up or covered in dust, grease, etc, such as the apt you described. Boric acid will create a toxic environment everywhere you use it for years under good conditions. Get a hand duster and shoot it into wall voids, pipe chases, etc. Will last years in those conditions.

roach motels: consider buying Victor Roach Pheromone traps. Very specific to German roaches, using the aggregation pheromone. Really pulls them in. More expensive, but you don't need as many, and they are a terrific tool. They are considered control devices, whereas roach motels are simply monitors. In apts where you have no problems, good tenants, etc you don't need to use point source until a problem exists. In the meantime use Victor pheromone traps, teach your tenants to check traps and call you if needed.

Gel baits: We use them a lot for roaches and ants. Gels and liquids are the way to go. Dupont Advion is our fav for roaches, but all are good.

Make sure that you are legal to do pest control in your properties, according to your state's regulations. Honestly, I don't care,, as I am big on private property rights, and diy. You sound knowledgeable and not afraid of a challenge. My concern is that one disgruntled tenant could cause more trouble than you deserve. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:00 AM   #7
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Totally infested with roaches..


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We actually spend more money buying stuff to kill the roaches then hiring a professional because we do a better job.

If you are doing a better job than the professionals that you are hiring, maybe you need a different pro. Find ones that belong to pest control trade associations.

That said, Gentrol is an outstanding product, use it all the time, both Point Source and concentrate. The qtip idea is intriguing, but I'd be more confident with spraying. Use a small hand held trigger bottle for simplicity. Remember, the Point source is about 91% active ingredient, the concentrate is much less (don't remember % at the moment). Even used straight out of the bottle, you won't be close in %. When spraying gentrol you don't have to be very detailed or specific, just close. Gentrol is very active and will migrate (safely). The odor dissipates fast. Point source only needs to be applied every 3 months.

To see if Gentrol is working for you, look for immature roaches that have defects, such as blistering, crooked wings, etc.

Boric Acid: You don't need to use this every time. It is inorganic and will last until it gets cleaned up or covered in dust, grease, etc, such as the apt you described. Boric acid will create a toxic environment everywhere you use it for years under good conditions. Get a hand duster and shoot it into wall voids, pipe chases, etc. Will last years in those conditions.

roach motels: consider buying Victor Roach Pheromone traps. Very specific to German roaches, using the aggregation pheromone. Really pulls them in. More expensive, but you don't need as many, and they are a terrific tool. They are considered control devices, whereas roach motels are simply monitors. In apts where you have no problems, good tenants, etc you don't need to use point source until a problem exists. In the meantime use Victor pheromone traps, teach your tenants to check traps and call you if needed.

Gel baits: We use them a lot for roaches and ants. Gels and liquids are the way to go. Dupont Advion is our fav for roaches, but all are good.

Make sure that you are legal to do pest control in your properties, according to your state's regulations. Honestly, I don't care,, as I am big on private property rights, and diy. You sound knowledgeable and not afraid of a challenge. My concern is that one disgruntled tenant could cause more trouble than you deserve. Hope this helps.

HI PAbugman,

Thanks a million for responding. Could I ask you a few more questions? I can't believe you used the Gentrol concentrate straight out the bottle. Especially since it says that the small bottle is suppose to be mixed with a gallon of liquid. However, I guess I'm doing the same thing when I dip the q-tip into the concentrate. I just wish I knew if the concentrate and the Point Source is the same ingredient.

Thanks for the information regarding the Victor Roach Pheromone traps. I thought all roach motels are the same and that is why I purchase mine at 99 cents store. I will look into this.

Regarding the Gel, you stated you use Dupont Advion. I used that in the past also. However, I was told that I have to alternate brands because the roaches develop resistance to one particular type of gel. Therefore, every time I use the gel, I try to change the brand. Is that true?

I am actually the landlord, so I believe it's legal for me to do the job. To be fair on the professional pest control companies I only used one company and I never tried another company. I think the company I used (Western Exterminator) only used the cheapest stuff which is spray and boric acid. Also, when a tenant didn't move the food, they refused to service the place. They have never provided the Gentrol IGR Point Source or roach motels. I'm impressed that your company provides these.
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:14 PM   #8
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Totally infested with roaches..


stanlam: Let me compliment you-it sounds like you are doing a better job than your (former?) pest control guys. Let me criticize them if they are not using modern chemistry and knowledge in their roach treatments. I would feel underpowered and ineffective if I didn't use Gentrol, phero traps, gel baits. Having the customer clean out cabinets, hide everything, etc is old school thinking. That is how I started in the business, though.

Point source and Gentrol are the same ingredient. Check the "active ingredients" section on the label/bottle/package.

We mix Gentrol concentrate with water; 1 oz per 1 gal water ratio. The point I was trying to make was in evaluating your q-tip idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that you were asking about using qtips to soak in gentrol liquid, and then place them strategically, such as point source. Good idea, but Point source is 91% active ingredient, as opposed to the Gentrol concentrate which even in undiluted form is much, much lower. In the diluted form (1oz per gal) the concentration is considerably lower yet. The high % in point source is why you can place it in on spot, the low % with the diluted gentrol liquid is why it needs to be sprayed in various areas. The molecule is very active, both point source and liquid, meaning it will migrate to other location, which is what we want.

Don't worry about resistance-that takes a long time and happens over a large geographic region, mainly related to the older sprays-phosphate, carbamate, hydrocarbon based. Modern day bait chemistry changes so frequently anyway. Use whatever works best until you lose faith in it, then switch. Any boric acid based bait (active ingredients on label) or spray or dust has never developed resistance because it is inorganic.

The large pest control companies have "policies" that govern treatments; in essence they try to standardize treatments across the board, even though the reality is we face different situations, circumstances, people all the time. A smaller company, local, and not franchised will be more flexible with meeting customers needs and with updating application methods. In all the years that I've been going to update training seminars, and my professional assoc memberships, we never see the large company employees. They get "in-house" training only, and somehow they get state credits for that. We can't. Sometimes we see the large company entomologists and such, which are very good and helpful, but they want their people trained their way only.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:53 AM   #9
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Totally infested with roaches..


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stanlam:

Point source and Gentrol are the same ingredient. Check the "active ingredients" section on the label/bottle/package.

We mix Gentrol concentrate with water; 1 oz per 1 gal water ratio. The point I was trying to make was in evaluating your q-tip idea. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that you were asking about using qtips to soak in gentrol liquid, and then place them strategically, such as point source. Good idea, but Point source is 91% active ingredient, as opposed to the Gentrol concentrate which even in undiluted form is much, much lower. In the diluted form (1oz per gal) the concentration is considerably lower yet. The high % in point source is why you can place it in on spot, the low % with the diluted gentrol liquid is why it needs to be sprayed in various areas. The molecule is very active, both point source and liquid, meaning it will migrate to other location, which is what we want.
HI PAbugman,

To clarify, I will be putting the Q-tip in the Gentrol concentrated form at 100% strength, so I was assuming that since it was NOT diluted at all, it should be the same as the Point Source. (I remember when I activated the Point Source, you break this little thing that has some liquid in it. That's how I came to the suggestion that it might be the concentrated formula.) So instead of using a package of 20 Point Source at $35, I will be using a 1 ounce bottle at $13, but dipping small q-tip into the bottle and strategically placing the q-tip around the kitchen. Since you seem very knowledgeable on this, do you think it will work? Or do you think I should just order the $35 point source?

Thanks for the information also regarding the pest control companies. I think in the future, if I order a service again, I can interview them on the phone and ask them exactly what they do. And of coarse I will stay away from the big chains.

thanks,
stan
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:09 PM   #10
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Totally infested with roaches..


No, it won't work because the point source is 91% strength, the liquid concentrate is much less, so you cannot replicate a point source. Either spray with the liquid, or use point source. Gentrol can be bought in bigger bottles, too. More economical.

Point source and gentrol concentrate liquid are the same active ingredient, but the percentages are very different.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:06 PM   #11
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Totally infested with roaches..




feel for ya, these guys can be a pain to get rid of
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:11 PM   #12
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Totally infested with roaches..


stanlam, I think you are on the right track with Borax. Mixing boric acid with whatever the local cock roaches like (sugar water, grease, or peanut butter) and placing it in small tin foil cups is a very inexpensive way to deal with the problem. I got the idea from an ant killing website: getting rid of ants. Hope that helps!
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:25 PM   #13
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stanlam, I think you are on the right track with Borax. Mixing boric acid with whatever the local cock roaches like (sugar water, grease, or peanut butter) and placing it in small tin foil cups is a very inexpensive way to deal with the problem. I got the idea from an ant killing website: getting rid of ants. Hope that helps!

I've tried this method about 10 years ago and I didn't think it worked. It's hard to say because I can only speak on what my tenant tells me.... and they said they still had a lot of roaches. Are you 100% convinced it works? It can't be that easy. Let me know, maybe I will try it again.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:14 AM   #14
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Totally infested with roaches..


Just get a box of Borox from the grocery store. Sprinkle it everywhere. Come back next day and vacuum and wash areas. The roaches will keep coming back if the tenants don't change their hygiene habits.

Had this problem when I worked at an apartment complex. Tenant worked at a bakery and would have flour and whatnot all over his clothes and shoes. This is what brought in the roaches.
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:06 AM   #15
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Totally infested with roaches..


Modern day roach baits are far more effective and attractive then they used to be even several years ago. Making your own is an idea whose time has come and gone. If you want boric acid based bait, just look at the active ingredients on the package/containers.

I suggest liquid and/or gel baits for roaches and ants. Very attractive. For active ingredients, look for any of these: Fipronil; hydramethylnon; indoxacarb; boric acid;

Do not spray anywhere near the bait, as it will repel roaches and work against your baiting strategy.. Even boric acid powder sprinkled around is repellent.

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