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Old 04-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #1
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


This topic hasn't produced much results on this forum, so can anyone give me some insight on wether or not this is a good idea?

I am not a big dricor fan.. and specially not at that price.
What i want to do, is raise the temeprature of my basement cement slab, and there is tons of info about floating floors and eng'g hard wood floors,
but what about R value on cement slab?

I believe 3/4" xps will be a 3.5 R value, and a 1" will be approx. 5 R value.

After doing a test myself, and leaving a piece of 1" on the slab for a day, I see that walking on this piece of xps offers a much warmer temperature, without even adding the t&g ply or finished floor on top.

My questions is, does anyone suggest / have experience with xps / tape joints / t&g ply + floating laminate or floating eng'g hard wood?

What is the thinnest t&g that would be acceptable?
Would the xps foam board be glued to the slab?
How do you attache the t&g? or does it float...

Appreciate all input!


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Old 04-13-2009, 12:04 PM   #2
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


Didn't Mike Holmes do that to one of the basements on his program Holmes on Homes? I don't know what kind of foam board he used.

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Old 04-13-2009, 12:37 PM   #3
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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Originally Posted by drtbk4ever View Post
Didn't Mike Holmes do that to one of the basements on his program Holmes on Homes? I don't know what kind of foam board he used.
yes he often does, and often finishes with t&g, then carpet.
I know from a test i performed myself it greatly warms up your floor.. even in april!

So i' hoping to get some feedback here...
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:10 PM   #4
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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So i' hoping to get some feedback here...
I too would like to hear what others think about this.

I wonder if there are any building code issues? I imagine that would be depend on the municipality.
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Old 04-13-2009, 01:17 PM   #5
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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I too would like to hear what others think about this.

I wonder if there are any building code issues? I imagine that would be depend on the municipality.
i can't see where there would be a building code issue. if the proper foam board is installed along with taped joints it should have the same effect as a 6mil vapor bar. that anybody would install under any laminate flooring.

unless, this would block eventual moisture under the foam in damp applications and wouldn't let the concret breath.

hopefully, someone will weigh in soon!
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Old 04-13-2009, 03:35 PM   #6
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


I'm pretty sure that, in Canada at least, if you use XPS on walls then you need to put it behind a thermal break (such as drywall).

The problem is the foam will burn, and when it does it produces toxic smoke - so you need to keep it protected from fire.

I'm not sure what protection you need if it's on the floor. I've seen Mike Holmes do it too, but don't remember what he put on top. Maybe the OSB/plywood subfloor counts as a thermal break? I also seem to recall he drove a lot of screws through the subfloor and foam to secure it (i.e., not floating - my memory may be faulty here).

-Steve
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:13 AM   #7
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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I'm pretty sure that, in Canada at least, if you use XPS on walls then you need to put it behind a thermal break (such as drywall).

The problem is the foam will burn, and when it does it produces toxic smoke - so you need to keep it protected from fire.

I'm not sure what protection you need if it's on the floor. I've seen Mike Holmes do it too, but don't remember what he put on top. Maybe the OSB/plywood subfloor counts as a thermal break? I also seem to recall he drove a lot of screws through the subfloor and foam to secure it (i.e., not floating - my memory may be faulty here).

-Steve
I havn't read anything about it burning, or toxic smoke. Almost all insulations burn, so do wall studs, and so does the paper on drywall.
Fire stops have to be used from floor to floor basicaly... not between foam and drywall ??

I don't know why it's so hard to find info about this, maybe i should invest in mike holmes' book, haha


I have just found some usefull information regarding this subject on the holmes on homes forum. You do have to be registered.
I'm not gonna post the link, and I am not nocking this forum at all, but I guess all these answers can be found there.

Last edited by HABSFAN2006; 04-14-2009 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:16 PM   #8
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


Hi,

It's easy to find info on the foam and fire codes:

http://www.aohi.ca/foundation-insulation.htm says
Quote:
Do foam insulation boards installed on the interior require fire protection?
All foams require thermal protection equal to ½ inch of gypsum wall board when installed on the interior of a building, including a crawl space. The only exception is Celotex Thermax polyisocyanurate which may be installed without a thermal barrier where approved by the local building code official.
or...http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=11620

Quote:
Ensuring Fire Protection

Foam insulation is relatively hard to ignite, but when it is ignited, it burns readily and emits a dense smoke containing many toxic gases. The combustion characteristics of foam insulation products vary with the combustion temperatures, chemical formulation, and available air.

Because of these characteristics, foams used for construction require a covering as a fire barrier. One half-inch thick (1.27 cm) gypsum wallboard is one of the most common fire barriers. Some building codes, however, do not require an additional fire barrier for certain metal-faced, laminated foam products. Check with your local building code/fire officials and insurers for specific information on what is permitted in your area.
I also have an ecoenergy guide at home that deals specifically with insulating your basement (government of Canada document) and it clearly states a 1/2" gypsum fireblock is required to cover XPS foam.

It doesn't mention what to do about slab floors, unfortunately.

The problem isn't the burning, it's the toxic smoke. Building code wants to make sure you have enough time to get out of the building if a fire occurs.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:20 PM   #9
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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Originally Posted by SteveSmith98 View Post
Hi,

It's easy to find info on the foam and fire codes:

http://www.aohi.ca/foundation-insulation.htm says
or...http://www.energysavers.gov/your_hom.../mytopic=11620

I also have an ecoenergy guide at home that deals specifically with insulating your basement (government of Canada document) and it clearly states a 1/2" gypsum fireblock is required to cover XPS foam.

It doesn't mention what to do about slab floors, unfortunately.

The problem isn't the burning, it's the toxic smoke. Building code wants to make sure you have enough time to get out of the building if a fire occurs.

that is great, thanks for the info.
So I am still left wondering if that is a wall exeption only, since we clearly all saw mike holmes install foamboard/ 5/8" t&g then carpet, no fireblock there...
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Old 04-14-2009, 07:01 PM   #10
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


In spite of what the code says, I say Bruins in 7...

Uh...sorry I have nothing to add here.

When Markov went down, so did the Habs.



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Old 04-14-2009, 07:28 PM   #11
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xps and t&g on cement slab?


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In spite of what the code says, I say Bruins in 7...

Uh...sorry I have nothing to add here.

When Markov went down, so did the Habs.





I like your humor... but, i must agree... i say less than 7. probably 5 or 6,
and get some much needed experience to our young guys...
i have a feeling markov will be back...

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