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Old 02-13-2008, 12:07 PM   #16
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what to use to level bumpy cement before epoxy....


and that patch in the picture was feathered out to the best of my ability, I was using metal and plastic blades of varying widths when doing these patches, just could not get them even close to the smoothness of the slab!
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:39 PM   #17
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Sorry about the miscommunication of the product. I went back and looked and you are correct, you did mention it. HELL, I thought that was a typo.

I have never heard of that product. Don't know that you could expect anything different from any other products.

Just makes patches everywhere and call it "a beautiful work of art".
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:34 PM   #18
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hahaha!!! It's abstract art guys, c'mon!!

This afternoon I spent like, literally, over an hour reading technical cement stuff, and am pretty sure that the cement accelerators (most known is probably calcium chloride) will be able to shred that 30 day rule the epoxy has.

I got a bag of that stuff (40lbs bag of cement with the accelerators ran me $15!!!!!!), so I'm gonna go ahead with that. Got a bag of sand too, I'll play around and see whether I wanna play w/ staight cement or make it into a light mortar, but that should work. If it does bubble up my epoxy (I'll probably give it ~1week to cure instead of the 30 days for generic portland cement), it's really not *that* bad, as I'm using the faux-epoxy stuff, the "1-part epoxy acrylic" stuff, so it will allow me to do touchups with great ease. I'd never take this risk if it were a proper (read: 2 part) epoxy product.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:45 AM   #19
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Joeboy,
I think you need to take a step back and think for a minute.
There many multinational companies specialising in chemicals for the building industry. While there are always developments, and without knowing your background, I don't think a bit of research is going to really make a difference in the "correlation....." theory.
I don't know what you mean with the "30 day hold time".
Epoxy resin doesn't have a "30 day rule".

I've had people say to me "I've read the technical data sheet for that material you are using so I know what I'm talking about".

Honestly!!!


If you want to use a specialised product, get a specialist in to use it.
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:40 PM   #20
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Joeboy,
I think you need to take a step back and think for a minute.

plz re-read what I had written, I did step back and think, and research, and found exactly what I needed to .


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There many multinational companies specialising in chemicals for the building industry.
heh, yes there are. I like pizza too.


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While there are always developments, and without knowing your background, I don't think a bit of research is going to really make a difference in the "correlation....." theory.

Alrighty, let's see if I can explain this a lil better.
1) The research doesn't make any difference in the correlation, of course! My act of researching does not change the physiological properties of the concrete, I never said that so I don't know where you got that. However, I do know that normal portland takes a good while to get stiff, while there's modified cement and mortar blends that will have a set time that is significantly faster. Now, the research was to see the correlation between time to set/stiffness, and total cure time. Think "does the entire cure accelerate at that rate, or just the initial set?".
2) You don't need a special 'background' to understand some basic chemistry, I learned mine in high school..
3) "while there are always developments," - I'm not sure you meant to type that there, what on earth do developments have to do with me understanding how closely correlated set time is with cure time?

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I don't know what you mean with the "30 day hold time".
Did you read the thread? The 30 day period is the period of time after pouring new concrete that one should wait before finishing it, whether you're talking acid stains or epoxy coatings.

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Epoxy resin doesn't have a "30 day rule".
Well, firstly this application is a 1 part epoxy acrylic, so it's not a true epoxy, and yes it does have a 30 day rule, as in wait til new crete has cured for 30 days.

But, even on regular epoxy you're wrong - even a standard 2 part should wait a month before being applied to freshly poured cement - you don't do epoxy, acid staining, whatever, on a freshly poured slab. The reason is because it's still undergoing chemical changes, which it will for a very long time, far beyond the month, but after the month it's almost where it'll end up.

Now, given that I didn't have a month, and I knew quicker *setting* concrete formulas were available, I simply set out to find if set was strongly correlated to cure.


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I've had people say to me "I've read the technical data sheet for that material you are using so I know what I'm talking about".

Honestly!!!
I don't doubt that - in fact I picture people talking technical to you and you being confused based on how this post was written. You seem to want to talk down as if I were messing this app up or doing something wrong, although I don't see a single actual thing you're saying is inaccurate, and I do see inaccuracies in your post - looking forward to hearing you clarify yourself.



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If you want to use a specialised product, get a specialist in to use it.
lol - for epoxy!? Epoxy!!?? You do realize that
a) this is a do it yourself board, and
b) epoxy floorings do not require specialists if you know what you're doing.



You think I'm off base and need a specialist - please clarify where I'm messing up, where I've got my facts wrong, explain why you think you can form epoxy resin on freshly poured concrete - very interested to hear your ideas
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:26 AM   #21
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what to use to level bumpy cement before epoxy....


that you can place to level & smooth out the floor,,, ( wtf did that conc work ? ? ? )

never've used that product or even heard of it but, it its compatible, go for it,,, we use other products pre-epoxy but its all in you're comfort level.

depending on your final use, probably wouldn't use an epoxy &, certainly, NEVER a mastic for an underlayment,,, get the impression this isn't your usual work - use a squeegee
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:31 AM   #22
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hadn't notic'd you did the conc repairs oy vey is mere,,, if that's good work, buy 3x the epoxy as you'll probably be replacing it 2 x's,,, in my limited 35yr experience, have notic'd its uncommon to gain proper experience from reading labels, msds, product sheets, forums, &/or listening to guys in orange aprons,,, but that's just me.
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:55 PM   #23
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sorry elite - could you clarify what you posted, I'm having trouble understanding that..
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Old 03-17-2008, 06:28 AM   #24
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work ? ? ?,,, hope fully they didn't get pd all that was bill'd, joey.


the rest's clear to me
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:22 PM   #25
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....well as long as it's clear to you, I guess. Don't know who you think got paid or did work besides myself lol, but as long as it's making sense on your end
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:56 PM   #26
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Old 03-18-2008, 03:46 PM   #27
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right?!

well, I know what I said wasn't received too well by some, hopefully I'm right and my thinking was 100% on point. Again, if anyone's found anything wrong with what I've said, done, or claimed as far as the reasoning, please let me know, I like to learn this stuff (as if that wasn't clear enough by the subject matter lol ).


Oh yeah, and after all the patching, tiny overlays, etc, I've found that product to be awesome. Only problem is that it's a 40lbs bag for $15, which is just asinine. If anyone knew, if they even exist, which products are designed to mix into a standard portland cement to achieve this effect, it'd be cool. I know that when using the calcium-derived ingredient, they don't go past like 2% of total <dry> weight, and calcium is crazy cheap in most of its forms, so I'd imagine there's gotta be a way to make this on your own for about the same cost as regular crete/cement.
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:02 PM   #28
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'cept on this point,,, altho i don't know the product nor have i ever used it, the price's inline w/similar products on the mkt,,, yes, you can ' roll your own ',,, just find the right polymers, aggregate(s) [ shapes & sizes ], & cement additives,,, manufacture/blend it, market/sell it, insure yourself against lawsuits, get it approv'd by specifying agencies/engineers/architects, worry when distributors/contractors're late paying the bill, show up for product support when the contractor rush'd & your product didn't perform & you're in grave danger of being remov'd from an approved source list,,, you'd like someone/anyone who's done all this to ' share ' proprietary information ? ? ?

i watch guys reinvent conc countertop or dec conc o'lay mix's often at what liability,,, sharing's not particularly easy to encounter when its ' your mix ' that puts food on your table - or so it seems to me.

cement's am ingredient of conc,,, w/the capitalization rqd all thru the process of making cement, i'm surpris'd its still so inexpensive.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:04 AM   #29
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what to use to level bumpy cement before epoxy....


[quote=so-elitecrete;108874]
you're probably right, joey,,, [quote=so-elitecrete;108874]
cool - again if I *did* mess anything up, I'd like to know just for the sake of future projects.

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yes, you can ' roll your own ',,, just find the right polymers, aggregate(s) [ shapes & sizes ], & cement additives,,, manufacture/blend it, market/sell it, insure yourself against lawsuits, get it approv'd by specifying agencies/engineers/architects, worry when distributors/contractors're late paying the bill, show up for product support when the contractor rush'd & your product didn't perform & you're in grave danger of being remov'd from an approved source list,,,

Ö.huh? I must not have made myself clear - I'd be 'rolling my own' for myself to save cash. You're making this sound a million times more complex than it really is, like you won't acknowledge there's a way to just add in the special ingredient yourself instead of buying it premixed.

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you'd like someone/anyone who's done all this to ' share ' proprietary information ? ? ?

Heh, well to be fair, *they* are not the ones who are doing the sharing. Yes, some companies have far better proprietary mixes than a simple calcium addition, although I'd take my blend at normal prices over the $14/40lbs stuff at the store that may be a tad better.

But you seem to be under the impression that every company's formula is some special mix that cannot be understood - that is incorrect. There is much common knowledge and research done on concrete and its properties, so when I read stuff I'm not reading company documents or something like you may think, Iím simply reading research on cement - info that's publicly available to anyone.

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i watch guys reinvent conc countertop or dec conc o'lay mix's often at what liability,,,

I dunno, you tell me - it's your anecdote..


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sharing's not particularly easy to encounter when its ' your mix ' that puts food on your table - or so it seems to me.

Again, the difference between Portland cement and Portland + accelerator is like 95% of the way towards some particular company's specific 'flavor'. I don't need to know the other 5% and, to be honest, it'd likely be harder to obtain chemicals than basic calcium forms. It'd likely be pointless to go much further even if I did know their specific blend.

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cement's am ingredient of conc,,, w/the capitalization rqd all thru the process of making cement, i'm surpris'd its still so inexpensive.

Heh really!? Cement's a decent, fair price to me, for *regular* cement. Just trust in the market, it's the right price, not too high, not too low .
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