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Old 02-05-2012, 08:45 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Look again at the top of the floor joist, looks all punky to me.
If it is he still does not need to replace the whole joist as its obviously not sagging, twisted, or warped. He can too, just sister a small piece to that section anyways.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:48 AM   #17
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I suggested right when I said he needs to have a mold abatement specialist come out and clean up the mold. Whether you agree with me or not that was sound advice.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:52 AM   #18
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Sanding, wire brushing, scraping is never used (unless you have no idea what your doing) to remove mold. It would grind in the mold spores deeper into the wood and make some air born causing it to spread.
Dry ice may kill the spores on the suface but do nothing to treat the spores deep in the wood of keep it from coming back.
In 30 years I've never heard of or seen any companys within a 100 miles of me that even does this type of treatment. So you would be hard pressed to even find anyone to do it.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:55 AM   #19
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http://www.concrobium.com/atHome_howToUse.php
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:55 AM   #20
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Sanding, wire brushing, scraping is never used (unless you have no idea what your doing) to remove mold.
It should not be used to remove mold. Many still do use these methods though.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:01 AM   #21
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Dry ice may kill the spores on the suface but do nothing to treat the spores deep in the wood of keep it from coming back.
In 30 years I've never heard of or seen any companys within a 100 miles of me that even does this type of treatment. So you would be hard pressed to even find anyone to do it.
TO determine if there is mold deep in the wood he needs to have a mold assessment done. That cannot be done here online! Someone actually has to come out to his house.

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Old 02-05-2012, 09:06 AM   #22
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He still needs to have a mold assessment done. Someone needs to evaluate the extent of the mold problem. This could be more serious then it looks.

Last edited by jasin; 02-05-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:09 AM   #23
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I don't see Scotte coming back to get any advice as there are to many opinions and disagreements here.
Mike & Joe are very knowledge in all eras flooring and haven't steered any one wrong on here.

Joe is correct on have some one poke around and really inspect the wood
None of us will tell that how bad it is just by a photo.

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Last edited by JetSwet; 02-05-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:28 AM   #24
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He still needs to have a mold assessment done. Someone needs to evaluate the extent of the mold problem. This could be more serious then it looks.
I am sure he does, did not say to handle it him self. Just better then bleach!
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #25
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Plywood is manufactured with the grain still intact, in layers whose grain alternates orientation 90 degrees. This is what gives plywood it's strength. OSB, MDF, HDF, etc.. all lack this particular feature. OSB, when used as a subfloor, actually tends to develop sags between the joists. It also makes a poor base for fastening hard-surface flooring as well, as it chips easily.
This can not really be said of OSB, true it does not have a grain direction per se, it is wood flakes that are oriented in mats optimized for a particular strength axis.
It is less expensive in general than the same size and thickness of ply and I prefer to use it in construction.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:31 AM   #26
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Gentlemen. I spent six months doing forensic investigations on houses damaged by flooding due to hurricanes Katrina and Rita. This included over 180 structures with damage ranging from wet due to flooding to catastrophic total destruction of the building.

Every one of the buildings I looked at had mold of one form or another. A few comments. First off, the standard treatment was to use bleach to kill the mold. Boric acid kills insects, I have never heard of it being used to kill mold. It might work, I have NEVER seen it used, we always recommended bleach, and the professionals used bleach.

Second, in all the buildings I looked at, there was no evidence of structural damage due to one time immersion in water. The mold was typically a shallow surface coating, and I never personally observed structural damage due to short term mold growth. A long term leak is another matter, the wood can be attacked by insects and other types of organisms, but the damage was generally very obvious. Deep penetrations into the wood, insect tunnels, obvious structural issues such as sagging etc. None of which is visible in the photos posted by the OP. Should it be investigated, yes absolutely, and of course if the joists are found to be structurally compromised, they should be replaced. From the photo, it looks like they are going to be fine once the mold is cleaned off.

Last point is that mold requires three things to grow. Warm enough temperature, moisture, and a substrate. You take away any of those items, the mold leaves behind spores, and stops growing. Spores are present everywhere, all the time, so you don't typically get all jacked up about spores unless you are OCD, which is a different issue. You remove the visible mold, fix the leak, dry the structural elements, rebuild, and relax.

As for OSB not being suitable for substrate, well you better tell the world, cause most people are using it rather than plywood. The currently produced OSB (which stands for oriented strand board) is quite a bit better than the old chipboard, and can be rated for use as indoor or outdoor substrate. Personally I prefer plywood, but then I am just a grumpy old engineer set in my ways, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with properly specified OSB.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:39 AM   #27
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This can not really be said of OSB, true it does not have a grain direction per se, it is wood flakes that are oriented in mats optimized for a particular strength axis.
It is less expensive in general than the same size and thickness of ply and I prefer to use it in construction.

Andy.
I've replaced enough osb in my time to know that it is far from superior to plywood for sub-flooring.

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Old 02-05-2012, 11:49 AM   #28
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Step 1. Get a mold expert to check it out.
Step 2. After he tells you it's too far gone, remove the damaged area.
Step 3. Sister a joist to the last dry joist and hang new ones from there.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #29
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http://www.pestproducts.com/timbor.htm

Just one of the dozens of brand names of products with Boric acid.
I've worked for a pest control company and now use many differant ones to do my pretreats and and treatments on fungus and also for things like Powder Post Bettles, old house bores, boring bees, and dozens of other insects.
Not one uses bleach to treat black mold or fungus on wood, works fine for small areas like on a drywall wall that there's mold only on the surface.
Boron is used to kill insects but also does many other things, it works by dehydrating the insect when they try to clean it off there legs. But it's also used as a mildicide, to treat rotted wood, a fire retardent ect.
Call any pest control company and ask them what they use to kill fungus under a house.

To have that much fungus this was not a one time leak there dealing with it's been going on for a while.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:24 AM   #30
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I come back....

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