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-   -   Water 'seeping' from linoleum on top of tile (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/water-seeping-linoleum-top-tile-123138/)

ewerbeck 11-11-2011 05:33 PM

Water 'seeping' from linoleum on top of tile
 
Hey everyone... new member here. Saw a lot of knowledge floating around and I hope you can help me with a mystery.

Bought a fix-er-up house and put a lot of work into it... but I just wanted to get the bathrooms livable for a while. It'd been a year and I'm ready to renovate the master bath. Issue: I have some kind of seepage when I press down on the edges of the linoleum. Very small bits of water. It started with the one corner farthest away from the shower right at the exit of the bath.

Now, I see this happening in other places. Once again, this has been around for a while, but it's always bothered me. WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? Here are some photos. First photo is the first time I noticed it... then the rest started popping up over a year plus.

You can see some water on the next to the last pic. As I said, not like my bath is flooding--but if I'm going to do work on it, I'd like to fix this problem.

Any help? Thanks!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5323/img2609xj.jpg
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6620/img2610wl.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3233/img2611lc.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7433/img2614o.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8844/img26091.jpg

oh'mike 11-11-2011 07:24 PM

You have a leak---the vinyl tiles are on top of sheet goods? That makes the likely source the toilet or a lot of water getting past the tub curtain..

What exactly are you doing in the renovation? Total Gut? Cosmetic? More info please.---Mike---

ewerbeck 11-11-2011 08:11 PM

Hey Mike, thanks...

I was hoping people would not say that, obviously... But I was wondering, because there is 'something' discoloring the base of the toilet (seal, whatever). I guess it could be the seal around the toilet?

I would add that this is lenolem ON TOP OF tile (with a layer of leveling compound). I did not put a moisture barrier on top of the tile or anything.

The shower is a stand-up shower, I wasn't sure if it could be the shower pan???

Anyway, my plan was to remove the lenoleum, put new tile down. Probably remove the toilet and vanity, and re-grout the shower.

What are your thoughts? Possible solution?

oh'mike 11-12-2011 05:56 AM

Is the floor concrete or wood frame?

The tile under the vinyl squares---is it ceramic----

Details----Mike---

ewerbeck 11-12-2011 09:04 AM

The subfloor is concrete. It is ceramic tile on top of the concrete, and linoleum on top of that. I would assume this means the toilet is leaking in-between the ceramic tile and the linoleum? If I pull up the linoleum, I'm going to find a bunch of mold, etc?

ewerbeck 11-12-2011 09:30 AM

Never having done this before... I've been poking around on the internet. Assuming it is the seal on the toilet, and I want to re-tile anyway... Might I have a problem with the flange being too low? I guess one thing at a time, but I'm seeing that I might need to remedy the fact that the toilet will sit higher than my plumbing--unless I leave the new toilet sitting exactly where my old one is and re-tile around the outside the base of the toilet. Thanks for your advice.

dsconstructs 11-12-2011 10:11 AM

You don't want to tile around the base of the toilet. You'll want to pull the toilet and flooring, lay your new flooring to set the toilet back on top of. A picture when you have the toilet and flooring up will help determine any problems with the flange.

ewerbeck 11-12-2011 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsconstructs (Post 769396)
You don't want to tile around the base of the toilet. You'll want to pull the toilet and flooring, lay your new flooring to set the toilet back on top of. A picture when you have the toilet and flooring up will help determine any problems with the flange.

I guess I have my first steps identified then... I'm going to pull the toilet up either today or tomorrow if I can, and then use a "dollar plug" to plug up the hole. When I get that done, I'll pull up the linoleum and get back to you guys.

I'm guessing it will be fairly obvious if the toilet is the source of the issue when I actually lift the toilet up.

dsconstructs 11-12-2011 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewerbeck (Post 769403)

I'm guessing it will be fairly obvious if the toilet is the source of the issue when I actually lift the toilet up.

Yes it should be, if in doubt snap a picture and post it.

ewerbeck 11-13-2011 07:06 PM

Okay, so check this out... Looks like there's the problem. This is before I cleaned it up but I did remove the wax ring. It looked like the wax ring was in tact, but it was pretty nasty. I guess I should've left the ring on there for you guys to look at. One thing I noticed is it was only a wax ring and there was no cone on the bottom of the toilet, other than what you see here, going into the flange.

Of note, possibly, is the nappy surroundings of the flange. I guess I'm not sure where the leak is/was. It looks fine inside the flange, doesn't look discolored or anything, but I'm not sure it would. Thoughts?

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/139/img2621pb.jpg

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6707/img2622dt.jpg

ben's plumbing 11-13-2011 07:16 PM

for sure thats your problem....seal was leaking... or small crack in commode....clean everything up see how low your flange is from finish floor....looks like it could be ok...maybe just seal failure.....go from there... would still be concerned about mold....

ewerbeck 11-13-2011 07:42 PM

I must say... I'm really impressed with everyone's advice and really appreciate it. I'll clean up the flange area over the next couple days and post a follow up. I think the top of the flange is fine--is there anything below floor level, a joint, etc., that would cause a problem?

Also, since I'm going to put down a new layer of tile, do I need to elevate the flange?

dsconstructs 11-13-2011 07:55 PM

Agreed, it appears the seal wasn't good, between the wax and the toilet in particular.

The flange should sit just on top of the finished floor height when you redo your floor.

Blondesense 11-13-2011 09:29 PM

Do you recall any movement or rocking of the toilet before you pulled it up? If so, that can eventually do a number on your wax ring and could have caused it to fail.

oh'mike 11-13-2011 11:21 PM

I doubt if you will need an extender for the flange----wax rings come in different thicknesses --one of them should do the trick.

Clean the area on the bottom of the toilet where the wax must stick---it needs to be clean--


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