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Old 01-24-2013, 10:41 AM   #16
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Walk-in Tile Shower


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Originally Posted by jldz140 View Post
My name is Jeff, also.. I looked at the Kerdi system. It seemed to be quite expensive. I'm on somewhat of a budget so I'm trying to do a good job but not break the bank. Could I do the traditional mud bottom but use the Kerdi boards on the wall? Just trying to save some money.
Would it be a terrible idea to just use cement board on the walls?
You can definitely use mud on the bottom, then Kerdi over that. However 1 big advantage is the Kerdi drain which is integrated with the mounting flange and therefore also waterproof without worrying about weep holes, etc.

Using cement board on the walls kind of defeats the purpose since they're not waterproof - the primary advantage of Kerdi is waterproofing completely and conveniently. A better way to save money would be to not use the Kerdi boards since they're expensive, but install Kerdi membrane over plain drywall. The Kerdi will cost, but drywall is less expensive than cement board. Then there are the cement board screws, and then waterproofing the cement board somehow will cost extra as well.

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Old 01-24-2013, 12:05 PM   #17
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You can definitely use mud on the bottom, then Kerdi over that. However 1 big advantage is the Kerdi drain which is integrated with the mounting flange and therefore also waterproof without worrying about weep holes, etc.

Using cement board on the walls kind of defeats the purpose since they're not waterproof - the primary advantage of Kerdi is waterproofing completely and conveniently. A better way to save money would be to not use the Kerdi boards since they're expensive, but install Kerdi membrane over plain drywall. The Kerdi will cost, but drywall is less expensive than cement board. Then there are the cement board screws, and then waterproofing the cement board somehow will cost extra as well.
Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower. JMHO
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:14 PM   #18
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Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower.
No reason not to, it works fine. Most people don't trust products or technologies that are new to them. For some reason in the trades, people are very slow to adopt new technologies. In other fields, such as computer science, the rate of change is mind bogglingy fast. In the trades, it's mind numbingly slow. No good reason for that other than "I do it the way I've always done it", or "I don't have time to learn or experiment with that".

If this were the computer field, Kerdi would be so old it would have been obsolete 20 years ago. And yet people in the US still have yet to use it or even hear of it. Weird.

It hasn't been called cheap, but it certainly is good.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:49 PM   #19
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Even with the Kerdi, I wouldn't trust the sheet rock in a shower.
And why not? With Kerdi I can make swiss cheese waterproof.

Jeff, no one knows what your meaning of expensive or breaking the bank is. What have you looked at so far?

I would highly recommend doing the Kerdi with Kerdi Drain for the floor and at least partially up the walls if you go with concrete backer board on the walls. But you should be able to get the drain and enough fabric to do the floor & walls for $300-400. This way you only have to place one deck mud floor base and it'll be waterproof.

Most showers I sell cost 3.5-6k including tiles and labor. You're saving 65-70% by doing the work yourself. What will you save if it has to be re done in 5-10 years?

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:49 PM   #20
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And why not? With Kerdi I can make swiss cheese waterproof.

Jeff, no one knows what your meaning of expensive or breaking the bank is. What have you looked at so far?

I would highly recommend doing the Kerdi with Kerdi Drain for the floor and at least partially up the walls if you go with concrete backer board on the walls. But you should be able to get the drain and enough fabric to do the floor & walls for $300-400. This way you only have to place one deck mud floor base and it'll be waterproof.

Most showers I sell cost 3.5-6k including tiles and labor. You're saving 65-70% by doing the work yourself. What will you save if it has to be re done in 5-10 years?

Jaz
Just goes to show ya how much an ole nail whooper knows about the new things, that must be some good stuff.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:23 PM   #21
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I am currently in the process of planning a project that is exactly like this one in but in Virginia and am strongly leaning towards the Schluter System. I met with a Schluter dealer today to discuss my ideas and view the product. My idea is to use the Schluter pan and drain then cement board walls and ceiling ( I too am a little nervous when it comes to talking about green board in a shower). The walls and ceiling I would then fully cover with the Kerdi membrane, essentially encapsulating the entire inside of the shower. My thought process for this is to ensure that there is no possibility for moisture or vapor to find its way into the wall cavities, subfloor or attic. The Schluter dealer said that when using the cement board, going more than 8" up the walls is overkill and that he would only do it fully encapsulated when using green board ( once again, green board in the shower scares me for some reason) JazMan, I have seen you mention or discuss the Schluter system many times and now see you talking about partial wall covering over cement board. Would full covering including ceiling be way overboard with this type of job?
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:11 PM   #22
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Completely tiled walls and ceilings are cool. Mostly overboard, but cool looking. They work well with a walk-in style shower where the moisture can get a bit trapped in there.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:25 PM   #23
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Ryan,

There's many different ways to do a good job, including hybrid waterproofing. I think CBU on the ceiling may be overkill, but if you wanna take the extra effort go for it.

It makes no difference what is behind the Kerdi membrane though. Schluter recommend regular drywall. Matter of fact, regular drywall is preferred over green board because it's stiffer. The whole secret with the Kerdi system is the drain. There are other membranes that work well too.

Installing Kerdi membrane overhead isn't fun, I'd rather use a liquid membrane there if I wanted anything at all. But, it's a great plan to Kerdi the ceiling too.

If you use CBU or GB on the ceiling you'll want to add more framing, 24" o.c. is not enough. Good idea to do it with regular wallboard too. Everyone (almost) gets this wrong.

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Old 01-24-2013, 07:27 PM   #24
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I'm looking at the Kerdi system and have a few questions. If I use the shower tray do I have to use their drain? The drain they sell is almost 3 times the cost of most.
If I use their tray from what I understand, it goes directly on the subfloor?
Can I still make my own curb to save on cost or will it be just as cheap to use Kerdis?
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:36 PM   #25
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The drain they sell is almost 3 times the cost of most.
No it isn't! It's about 12 times more and well worth it. Like comparing apples & ball-point pens. (There's more competition now though. Laticrete has a similar system.) It's also completely different, the entire system is different and can't be compared to a traditional shower.

The best part of the system is the drain. You can use the drain and do a deck mud base if you wanna. You can build your own curb even with the tray.

Jaz

This is a regular 2-piece drain you'd use in an old fashioned shower. Less than $10. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwBQ&dur=570

This is a Kerdi Drain. Cost anywhere from $110-150. http://www.google.com/imgres?q=kerdi...9,r:0,s:0,i:84

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