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Old 04-05-2009, 01:18 PM   #1
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ok i have been installing floors for about 13 years well never have i had to lay a floating floor with the coushon on the back that only gets taped around the perimiter if i use a seam sealer will it break apart as traffic areas start to wear in the vinyl

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Old 04-05-2009, 05:15 PM   #2
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http://vinylflooring.org/movie.html This should help. You don't tape it around all the walls.

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Old 04-09-2009, 11:05 AM   #3
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28 years experience...

DONT BUY FLOATING VINYL cushioned FLOORING.
Ive seen it come and go over the years and it never holds up.

listen to the old timers. We've been there already.



Quote:
Originally Posted by phatibs01 View Post
ok i have been installing floors for about 13 years well never have i had to lay a floating floor with the coushon on the back that only gets taped around the perimiter if i use a seam sealer will it break apart as traffic areas start to wear in the vinyl
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
DONT BUY FLOATING VINYL cushioned FLOORING.
Ive seen it come and go over the years and it never holds up.
You have never seen this stuff.
Plus most of the new stuff is only bought into by a couple manufacturers.
This one has been embraced by each and every one of them.

IVC
Tarkett
Congoleum
Armstrong
Mannington
ect....

I heard the same thoughts on lam when it first came out....

"Don't buy it! it's new and will be yet another floor idea that will die soon!"

whoops-
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatibs01 View Post
ok i have been installing floors for about 13 years well never have i had to lay a floating floor with the coushon on the back that only gets taped around the perimiter if i use a seam sealer will it break apart as traffic areas start to wear in the vinyl
Even with over 40 years of experence new products keep coming out to try to keep the pros from doing the installation that way manufactures can have a excuse to blame product problems on the homeowner and not a professional who usually knows its really the product in some cases. There is still bad installations too.

Answer to your question. You can doubleface tape where ever there is a seam and there should not be a problem. Some seam sealers though are not very good. Some break after 1 or 2 years. I have a Primafloor in my kitchen (Armstrong Designer II) seam right down the middle and used Armstrong top sealer and our kitchen is 17 years old and no problem with the seam or sealer. The problem with some floors out today is if they are to be loose layed they have bubbles because of being rolled up that are still there by the time you are ready to leave even though you cut a little short( 1/16" around cabnets and 1/4" under baseboards) around to let it relax.
Not sure customers believe you when you leave that it will flatten out.
( and you hope so too)
I still like a full spread installation if I had my choice.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:21 AM   #6
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I still like a full spread installation if I had my choice.
Absolutely. It can still be pulled up with little or no effort as a pressure sensitive adhesive is used and there is no felt backing.
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:17 AM   #7
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you said ----> "You have never seen this stuff"

ANSWER --> yes ive seen it. i do this for a living.

You said ----> " Plus most of the new stuff is only bought into by a couple manufacturers.
This one has been embraced by each and every one of them"

ANSWER ----> have you ever thought that maybe "ONLY A COUPLE" of manufacturers carry the product because the OTHER MANUFACTURERS already know the product DOESNT HOLD UP.. so they dont carry it to remove all the customer complaints they keep getting..??? and.. would ANY company not embrace a product they are trying to SELL ?

trust me. The flooring manufacturers have strategic loop holes to protect themselves. they simply say.. it failed because the installer installed it wrong.. or the customer was to blame for the failure.. Ive seen that happen so many times that i changed my methods and took photos of my installation for my own PROTECTION.

Its your call my friend. But hear me out first... I have seen those types of vinyl flooring come and go for 28 years. every time a new one comes out, the manufacturer rants and raves on how improved it is. then after about a yr or so. the product is discontinued.

Facts...
If the product is so awesome like they claim.. then why are they repetitively discontinued ? WHY ? because they dont work..
If they did work.. the only thing we would see changed is... the patterns.

Facts...
Soft flooring WILL RIP.. (Key word WILL)
large dogs WILL rip the flooring.
Moving your refrigerator out WILL RIP IT.
Dropping something with a sharp edge on it WILL CUT IT.
Pulling your kitchen chairs out from under the table.. WILL WEAKEN IT and RIP it.

Facts...
IF you DO NOT seal ANY seams ON THE TOP.. water WILL migrate through it.
Double stick tape only works TEMPORARILY...
Some cushioned vinyl floors are GLUED at the seams and perimeter, But not in the main Area...FACT.. EVERYTHING shrinks and expands with temperature. If the flooring Expands from heat.. all of it will expand except where its glued down, resulting in bubbles in the main UN GLUED AREA.

Facts...
the reason companies came out with cushioned vinyl flooring is.
it EXTREMELY reduces the LABOR COST. because the customer doesnt have to Buy and pay for a subfloor.. which can DOUBLE the labor cost.
The cushion isnt really for your feet.. its to ABSORB any imperfections Under the vinyl. Thats why most cushion floors are not full spread glued. they want the floor to FLOAT over the improfections...

My advice based on 28 years in the business is
DONT BUY SOFT VINYL FLOORING... IT WILL FAIL.
Best method is.. SOLID... STIFF...STRONG flooring with a full spread glue install )

I hope my advice helps you.

"listen to the old people.. we've been there (already)"









Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorwizard View Post
You have never seen this stuff.
Plus most of the new stuff is only bought into by a couple manufacturers.
This one has been embraced by each and every one of them.

IVC
Tarkett
Congoleum
Armstrong
Mannington
ect....

I heard the same thoughts on lam when it first came out....

"Don't buy it! it's new and will be yet another floor idea that will die soon!"

whoops-

Last edited by davidbzm; 04-11-2009 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
have you ever thought that maybe "ONLY A COUPLE" of manufacturers carry the product because the OTHER MANUFACTURERS already know the product DOESNT HOLD UP
Which manufacturers do not carry glass back Vinyl?

Quote:
The flooring manufacturers have strategic loop holes to protect themselves.
So do car manufacturers....should I drive?
So do Dishwasher manufacturers...should I wash my dishes?
So do.......oh never mind-

Quote:
Ive seen that happen so many times that i changed my methods and took photos of my installation for my own PROTECTION.
Good idea....but since this has happened to every floor in the industry...why pick on Glass backed?

Quote:
I have seen those types of vinyl flooring come and go for 28 years. every time a new one comes out, the manufacturer rants and raves on how improved it is. then after about a yr or so. the product is discontinued.
How about an example?
Inlaid? That was out forever..it was not discontinued because it did not work
Perimeter only spread? That also was discontinued for a whole other reason...
Lino? That is still made....
Hmm.. I am drawing a blank...help me out here...

Quote:
If the product is so awesome like they claim.. then why are they repetitively discontinued ? WHY ? because they dont work..
Wrong...the type is still made but patterns and colors change, so they are discontinued to make way for new patterns and colors...but the product stays the same.

Quote:
Facts...
Soft flooring WILL RIP.. (Key word WILL)
large dogs WILL rip the flooring.
Moving your refrigerator out WILL RIP IT.
Dropping something with a sharp edge on it WILL CUT IT.
Pulling your kitchen chairs out from under the table.. WILL WEAKEN IT and RIP it.
That is for ALL Vinyl...yes...thanks for the info

Quote:
IF you DO NOT seal ANY seams ON THE TOP.. water WILL migrate through it.
Double stick tape only works TEMPORARILY...
Read instructions...it requires a seam sealer....no wonder you take pictures....

Quote:
Some cushioned vinyl floors are GLUED at the seams and perimeter, But not in the main Area...FACT.. EVERYTHING shrinks and expands with temperature. If the flooring Expands from heat.. all of it will expand except where its glued down, resulting in bubbles in the main UN GLUED AREA.
As an old schooler myself I use the full spread glue down method on it no matter what....no problems since the beginning...
or loose lay completely...but only in Bath's...

Quote:
the reason companies came out with cushioned vinyl flooring is.
it EXTREMELY reduces the LABOR COST. because the customer doesnt have to Buy and pay for a subfloor.. which can DOUBLE the labor cost.
That is only one reason my friend....one.
there are many reasons you are not mentioning because you do not want to share or do not know.


Quote:
The cushion isnt really for your feet.. its to ABSORB any imperfections Under the vinyl.
It couldn't possibly be for both could it? Nooooooooooo!
Yes it could....imagine that.

Quote:
My advice based on 28 years in the business is
DONT BUY SOFT VINYL FLOORING... IT WILL FAIL.
Best method is.. SOLID... STIFF...STRONG flooring with a full spread glue install )
Like what? Commercial inlaid or Lino only?
Well they are more durable I give you that...but don't make it out as if this floor will fail.
You are wrong dude.
This floor has no guarantees of failure as you say.
Unless maybe if you install it.

Quote:
"listen to the old people.. we've been there (already)"
Look...this old school is the best school is not always the way....
Do you still install tile on chicken wire too? jeeesh.

But I would agree that there are some products manufacturers come out with that have not had enough time to be tested by real home conditions....
Just like there are cars and other products with the same issues...
it's called BUSINESS.

Fact is...this floor is performing well if installed correctly...

period.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:27 PM   #9
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Your name calling is done.
I will not allow it any further.
We both offer our opinions and anyone can take them for what they are.

You seem to think that you can say whatever and nobody should have anything to do with it.
Sorry David. It just doesn't work that way.

I sincerely hope you find time to continue posting on our forum.
If not, then I hope all is well with you in your future business.

I will now consider this matter closed and will request any further communication to be directed by private messaging.

thank you for your cooperation.

FloorGod
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:56 PM   #10
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Relax man, he is only offering his opinion.
That's pretty much what these boards are for no?

Floorwizard does know his stuff I have been reading his posts for a few years now. He is a very seasoned retailer with a great knowledge of the installation side as well

Its great that you want to help people but just crapping all over one product without having knowledge about it ( its obvious, sorry) isn't a good way to go about it in my opinion.

Any vinyl floor will tear if you drop something sharp on it. Any vinyl floor.

I have put almost a thousand yards of Tarkettes Fiber Floor in three veterinary clinics- full spread over concrete- and it is performing very well. Better in fact, than the Medintech I installed in another.

I can guarantee you that the cushion was not put into the floor to hide any subfloor irregularities, nor was it made to eliminate the professional installer. It has the same specs for install as any vinyl floor and will fail for the same reasons.

The basic intent of the product was for loose lay in damp areas so it could be taken up and dried and put back down. There is no conspiracy here.

Lighten up a bit, I am sure we could all benefit here from your many years in the biz. Nobody is out to get ya.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:22 PM   #11
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I have installed many yards of IVC vinyls. Although I prefer to lay it fullspread, I have installed it many times loose-lay with no problems. It is a great product for rentals, because it is easy to replace however it is installed.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:10 PM   #12
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Theu guy is gone anyway...he will no longer participate on this forum.

Thanks for the backup though.
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Old 04-12-2009, 07:40 AM   #13
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Probably better. I'm always annoyed at the close minded "that product sucks" attitude when someone just simply doesn't know the facts

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