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Old 07-28-2012, 11:21 PM   #1
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


Gut my kitchen today and planning to put a 6" x 24" ceramic tiles and then the cabinets. Earlier I had linoleum which I ripped out but left the 1/4" ply intact behind.

My Kitchen is 10ft wide and 18 Ft long (has the breakfast nook on 1 side). The house was built in 2000. The joists are running parallel to the width of the kitchen (10 Ft). I can see that the joists are placed 26" apart (unfinished basement).

Now with a 76" level when I check the level width-wise, I am almost perfectly level. On the length-wise (18 ft) I have an issue. Right in the middle of kitchen (9' mark) is the high point. From that point till the edge of the kitchen I looses a little over 1 inch both sides. In other words the edge of the kitchen is lower than the middle of the kitchen.

I thought of Self leveling compound but 1" I think is too much. I was then thinking of using more mortar on the edge than the center of the kitchen to atleast reduce the difference by 1/2".

What are my options? does it really matter?

I was going to keep the 1/4" ply and just screw in put 1/4" backerboard and put the tile across the width of the kitchen. It is 6" wide tile so less chance of it breaking.

if I put 1/2" backerboard on top of the 1/4" ply the total height of the kitchen will grow by 1 inch. I dont have that much space in front of the patio door so that would look odd.

Shelley.

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Old 07-28-2012, 11:42 PM   #2
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


1/4 plywood is not a sutable underlayment for tile, it needs to go.
Tile could care less about being level, it just need to be flat.
With spans that wide I would remove the 1/4" and go over it with at least 3/8underlaymant plywood.

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Old 07-29-2012, 12:10 AM   #3
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


So take out 1/4" plywood, use 3/8" instead. I got That but then I put 1/4" backerboard on top of the 3/8" ply or just lay the tile on the plywood?
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Old 07-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #4
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shbhalla
So take out 1/4" plywood, use 3/8" instead. I got That but then I put 1/4" backerboard on top of the 3/8" ply or just lay the tile on the plywood?
What's under the 1/4"
You need at least a 1" of ply for tile
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Old 07-29-2012, 05:03 PM   #5
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


I just checked. OSB and the already laid 1/4" ply makes a total of 1 inch and I plan to put a 1/4" backerboard then tile on top. That sound like enough? The more I research the more I get confused.

The tiles are imported from Italy and took a freaking month to get here. I have enough spare but don't want tiles to break a few months down the line. I have never been so confused on a DIY project before. I See the floor pretty stable besides the dip on both sides of the enter of the kitchen. Is that an issue at all?

Shelley.
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Old 07-29-2012, 07:41 PM   #6
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


How bad are the dips?
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:43 PM   #7
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


There is no sudden dip in the floor. One or 2 places has about 1/4" dip but otherwise pretty level. don't get me wrong though, like I said in my initial post the middle of the kitchen is about 1.5" higher than both ends on the length of the kitchen (18 ft) . Think a slope on each side from the middle running the length of the kitchen. So in other words I loose 1.5" over 9 ft gradually.. Both sides.

Width(10 ft) is level because the joists are running parallel to the width of the kitchen.

One thing is for sure, I will put the 6"x24" tile width wise cause I know the slope on either side will for sure break the tile, specially in the center.

So 1" wood (3/4" OSB and 1/4" ply) then 1/4" backerboard is what I am planning to put. Will give 1/8" gap between the tiles for grout. There was no manufacturer recommendation.

Shelley.
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Old 07-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #8
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


So we're you thinking of slc the dips? Or are you not worrying about it?

What type ply is the 1/4"? This is already down on osb?
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:28 PM   #9
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


My first worry is the slope. Is that really a worry or should I just forget about it?

There was linoleum before that I removed and the way it was laid it only had some glue on the boundaries of the room. So when I pulled it came off clean leaving the 1/4" ply/underpayment untouched and smooth. So this is what I had with me to start. I was thinking of ripping the 1/4" ply and put a 5/8" but it is stapled very nicely to the floor so I thought just put another 1/4" backerboard and lay tile. Is that right?

The joists are placed roughly 24" apart. It is weird that they are not evenly spaced but this is what I got. If I stand in my unfinished basement and have an adult walk in the kitchen I see the floor dip by about 1/4" could be more, I cannot quantify that very well. Is that considered bouncy?

I see 2 1/4" dips. I think this is the most walked area of the kitchen hence the dips. Should I do something about it or when laying tile put some extra mortar to even it out? I was thinking of leveling it out with mortar cause the dip was so small.

Shelley.
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Old 07-29-2012, 09:57 PM   #10
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


Shelley,

IF your floor was flat and otherwise suitable for tile, you'd have to remove the 1/4" underlayment, (luaun?), then add more ply because of the 24"o.c. and then the tile backer. But..............

Your floor is not flat enough for just about anything, especially a pattern that "shows" straight lines which of course will emphasize the hill. 1 1/2" or even half that will look terrible when you stand back. You need to fix the framing first.

Tell us about how it's framed and with what. Size & type of joists, 24" o.c., longest span. Do you know or find out the species and grade of the joists?

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Old 07-29-2012, 10:10 PM   #11
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


Post some pics of the floor. Jaz pointed out good points about joists.
Luon comes in one size and it's less then 1/4" so post pics. I would take it up regardless put another 1/2" or 3/4" then you can use a ditra mat if your running out of hight since your joists are so wide apart.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:40 PM   #12
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


Here are more detailed pictures of the kitchen Area.

A picture is worth a thousand words.. Hope this will give you a better idea what I am against.

Shelley.
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.-preview-1.jpg   Uneven floor and a few more questions.-preview.jpg   Uneven floor and a few more questions.-photo-3.jpg.jpg  
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:53 PM   #13
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


I am not sure about the species of wood the joists are made of. But they sure are not 2x8 or something. The picture I attached shows the details.

What do you think? Let me know I can send more zoomed-in images.

Shelley.
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Old 07-29-2012, 10:56 PM   #14
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


That 1/4" ply doesn't look like luaun to me, but it's doing you no good, remove it, it belongs at the curb. Then figure out how you're going to make the floor flat. The easiest might be by using self leveling compound, if the added height on the ends doesn't create other problems at the doorways. If you go this way, add new underlayment grade ply first, then level with the SLC.

Otherwise remove the subfloor to within a few inches of the walls and level the joists by planning or sistering new joists to the old ones. Again, this will raise the floor at the end walls. Depending on the type/size of joists, it would be a good idea to sister the joists anyway regardless of which way you go. Shouldn't be an issue to raise the floor on the end we see in the pic.

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Old 07-30-2012, 12:06 AM   #15
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Uneven floor and a few more questions.


I reviewed the level on the floor one more time. It seems like one joist is higher than the others. I need to bring I down by 1/4-1/2" and then sister join end wall joists to pull them up by 1/4-1/2". That should do the trick. I don't think this is a DIY Job is it?

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