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-   -   Tile over vinyl Floor?? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/tile-over-vinyl-floor-112509/)

pwgsx 07-31-2011 09:32 AM

Tile over vinyl Floor??
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have a bathroom floor that I want to tile. The vinyl floor does not want to come off no matter what I try. IT is on the bottom floor on a cement slab. Can I tile right over this?? I have read that I need to add some sort of additive 333 to the unmodified thinset, lay Ditra down and then tile. After reading the back if the thin set bag though, it states that it can adhear to full sheet vinyl just how it is out of the bag. Any thoughts?? I would like to get it right the first time.

rusty baker 07-31-2011 09:42 AM

That is not laminate, that is vinyl.

oh'mike 07-31-2011 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty baker (Post 697293)
That is not laminate, that is vinyl.

Good catch there Rusty---I changed the title---

A high quality unmodified thinset mixed with the liquid latex will work.

Kerabond and Keralastic by Mepei is a good example---read the manufacturers instructions,----Mike----

pwgsx 07-31-2011 10:11 AM

good eye, I was just going by what my gf's dad said it was......Looks like lowes carries this stuff. Do I need to prep the vinyl ( rough it up) before laying the tile with the un modified thinset and keralastic mix??
thanks

Bud Cline 07-31-2011 12:14 PM

You don't need DITRA.
Yes scuff the floor surface a little.

Just remember your tile installation will only be as good as whatever it is that holds that vinyl to the floor. What is the life expectancy of the vinyl adhesive and how long has it been there?

I have never ever had a vinyl floor glued to concrete that couldn't be removed but if you don't want to exert the effort that's your choice.:)

pwgsx 07-31-2011 01:04 PM

Came back from Lowes, now im confused. The only product they have is called KERAPLY - latex additive, But on the data info sheet it says do not use on vinyl ect ect...... See below.....

Is Keraply different than Keralastic?? Noone there ever heard of Keralastic :huh: No big surprise there.

Home Depot has Versa-Bond, do they make a similar product latex additive??


Keraset
mixed with Keraply

Do not apply over wood planking, presswood, particleboard,
chipboard, oriented strand board (OSB), pressure-treated
or oil-treated plywood, Masonite, Lauan, gypsum floorpatching,
gypsum leveling compounds, laminate surfaces,
fiberglass surfaces, poured epoxy floors, vinyl composition
tile (VCT), vinyl asbestos tile (VAT), cutback adhesive
residue, self-stick tile, noncushioned sheet vinyl, metal or
similar dimensionally unstable substrates.
Do not use for setting moisture-sensitive stone, cultured





Bud Cline 07-31-2011 01:27 PM

Remove the vinyl.:)

pwgsx 07-31-2011 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline (Post 697442)
Remove the vinyl.:)


Too much of a PITA!! :eek:

JazMan 07-31-2011 10:07 PM

Life's a B****, and then you die!:yes:

Man, people are getting lazier all the time. Good thing we don't have a WW II going on right now, or I might be writing this in German or Japanese.

OK, so yes you can tile over SOLID HARD vinyl IF you do the proper prep AND use the right stuff. And IF you trust the vinyl paste.

Another note about your old sheet vinyl floor. It's cushioned. Not such a good idea to tile over a cushioned floor. Peel the pattern layer, that white stuff is foam, then the backing. If it's old, the backing may contain asbestos. ('80's and older, roughly). You actually can delaminate the top part and leave the back IF indeed it is really bonded AND if it is asbestos. Best to remove it though.

Jaz

rusty baker 07-31-2011 10:08 PM

There's a good chance the tile floor will fail if you don't take up the vinyl.

ttr13r 08-01-2011 07:56 AM

Dealing with Black Adhesive(s)
 
Someone was asking me about an installation of carpet. There is a small area, has old 9" vinyl tiles, some are broken, exposing black adhesive. So here's the question: She was told that could all be removed safely if she "misted" with water, to eliminate (or at least) decrease dust that would become airborne. Wear a mask, etc. The tiles have to be disposed of as hazardous material too..correct? If this isn't the correct way of doing this, is there any other way? Doing an asbestos inspection...etc, is overwhelming her, and I can fully understand that because it can also get expensive as well as time consuming. Thanks guys (in advance)....if anyone is one the site now, i need to call her with the answer soon. Thanks!!!

P.S. I need help putting a "smiley face""!! on my questions/answers...HELP! (pretty pathetic, huh?)

Bud Cline 08-01-2011 08:07 AM

ttr13r,
It's not nice to hijack someone's thread.:)

pwgsx 08-01-2011 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttr13r (Post 697931)
Someone was asking me about an installation of carpet. There is a small area, has old 9" vinyl tiles, some are broken, exposing black adhesive. So here's the question: She was told that could all be removed safely if she "misted" with water, to eliminate (or at least) decrease dust that would become airborne. Wear a mask, etc. The tiles have to be disposed of as hazardous material too..correct? If this isn't the correct way of doing this, is there any other way? Doing an asbestos inspection...etc, is overwhelming her, and I can fully understand that because it can also get expensive as well as time consuming. Thanks guys (in advance)....if anyone is one the site now, i need to call her with the answer soon. Thanks!!!

P.S. I need help putting a "smiley face""!! on my questions/answers...HELP! (pretty pathetic, huh?)

:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: Maybe they dont know how to start their own thread??


The top vinyl peels off, under it is almost like carboard- no foam. Which leads me to think its not cushioned at all. The glue holding this down is VERY VERY strong,Even if I get it off, there will be shadowing in the cement slab so ill have to grind which I dont want to do.

Here is my plan, Remove any loose pieces of vinyl, scuff up the rest. Spread Versa Bond with Laticrete 333 added to the thin set and put Ditra down to prevent any issue with a cracked tile or groutline down the road. Then install tile as normal. :)

Bud Cline 08-01-2011 06:05 PM

Quote:

:whistling2::whistling2::whistling2::whistling2: Maybe they dont know how to start their own thread??

I doubt that! She is no dummy. I think she was in a hurry and saw some up to the minute activity and was hoping to catch someone here on the fly.


Quote:

The top vinyl peels off, under it is almost like carboard- no foam. Which leads me to think its not cushioned at all.
The foam is tightly compressed but none-the-less foam if it is cushioned vinyl. Cushioned vinyl under a tile installation can be bad news.

Quote:

The glue holding this down is VERY VERY strong,
In its current state that is probably true. But...

Quote:

Even if I get it off, there will be shadowing in the cement slab so ill have to grind which I dont want to do.
NO YOU WON'T, that's crazy.

Quote:

Spread Versa Bond with Laticrete 333 added to the thin set
Listen, I wouldn't recommend you add any additives to any already modified thinset product. All that will do is to wreck the chemistry of the modified thinset and maybe render it useless. Especially an additive from a different manufacturer.

Quote:

put Ditra down to prevent any issue with a cracked tile or groutline down the road.
If you install your tile over the existing vinyl the DITRA won't mean a thing and will be a waste of money. The vinyl will basically do the job of the DITRA.

Quote:

Then install tile as normal.
There is little normal about anything you are wanting to do.

Allow me to mention something then I'll go away.
First of all, I have no idea where you are getting these ideas you have.

You have come to a DIY Forum seeking advice. You are getting advice from seasoned professionals that do this stuff for a living. And yet you are trying to blow smoke and expect us to bless your conjuring.

I said before; I have never seen a concrete floor with vinyl glued to it that couldn't be removed with a little effort. You don't seem to want to put forth the effort.

If you were to peel the top layer of the vinyl, then soak the remaining felt with warm water, the felt will scrape off using a razor blade type wallpaper scraper, it just will.

Okay, before I get myself in trouble I am going to bow out of this nonsense and wish you luck. But I will suggest to you that bad advice from God only knows who, coupled with stubbornness on your part, could easily result in you wasting a lot of money for no good reason.:)

By the way, Home Depot sells a modified thinset that is one step above the Versabond, If you can't be evangelized by those in the know then at the very least spend a few extra dollars and buy the right modified thinset...and don't add anything to it other than water.:)

ttr13r 08-01-2011 07:03 PM

Bud...LMAO!!!! i don't KNOW know how to start a new topic... Rusty was right! Plus, I was in a hurry this morning!!


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