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Old 03-30-2008, 09:42 PM   #46
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Tile over asbestos tile?


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Originally Posted by Brik View Post
Yea, if you are really concerned. The moon suit approach has lost favor in recent years and the scare is minimized.

First off - Asbestos is only a concern if its airborne. Second, its not a certainty that this tile contains asbestos. Even if it did contain asbestos it would be hard to make it airborne. If it is asbestos in the tile (or mastic) its encapsulated in the tile. Wear a dust mask, put a fan in a window. If your really concerned wear a respirator instead of a .99c mask.

Bottom line - keep it simple - Tile over the concrete. Thats the right thing to do. No use discussing other options that might work. There is no question that the tile will stick to the concrete w/o doing anything special.
Brik is correct about the removal of asbestos tiles. They are a non fryable product and safe and legal to remove with a mask however you should not drill through or alter them in a way that you will create fine dust which can become airborne and you should not sweep the debris causing airborne dust. You should not vacuum the dust without the proper 3-stage filter. It is best to mop the areas using the proper chemicals. Some of the adhesives also contain asbestos which can cystalize and become more harmful than the tile.

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Old 03-31-2008, 03:02 PM   #47
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Tile over asbestos tile?


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They are a non fryable product and safe and legal to remove with a mask however

It's no wonder contractors are in trouble all the time.

Asbestos tiles ARE IN FACT FRIABLE. They are to be removed in a non-friable manner. Meaning: Don't break them down any more than necessary, the bigger the pieces the better.

People are posting here with no real knowledge of what the hell they are talking about.

fri·a·ble /ˈfraɪəbəl/[frahy-uh-buhl]
–adjective easily crumbled or reduced to powder; crumbly: friable rock.
[Origin: 1555–65; < L friābilis, equiv. to friā(re) to rub, crumble
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:02 PM   #48
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Tile over asbestos tile?


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It's no wonder contractors are in trouble all the time.

Asbestos tiles ARE IN FACT FRIABLE. They are to be removed in a non-friable manner. Meaning: Don't break them down any more than necessary, the bigger the pieces the better.

People are posting here with no real knowledge of what the hell they are talking about.

fri·a·ble /ˈfraɪəbəl/[frahy-uh-buhl]
–adjective easily crumbled or reduced to powder; crumbly: friable rock.
[Origin: 1555–65; < L friābilis, equiv. to friā(re) to rub, crumble
First of all, ive been certified for unsupervised asbestos and lead removal for over 20 years so before you accuse me or anyone of having no knowledge you should do a little more homework yourself. You took a quote out of a dictionary which isnt nessasarilly correct when you apply it to the terms used by us professionals. When we use the term non friable we simply mean that by removing the tiles, without altering them in a way to create particles that are small enough to penetrate the fiberous tissue within our lungs. Do the tiles crack and crumble during removal, YES they do but they do not reduce to nearly microscopic particles that will affect you. you cant even pulverize a tile with a hammer to create particles small enough. I appologize if your not familiar with our terminology. For example, when someone asks "Who cut the cheese?" theyr'e not really implying that someone actually cut cheese.
Over the years there have been alot of issues on the truth about asbestos tiles and for the most part everyone would rather be safe than sorry but we do our fair share of VA removal and use nothing more than masks. There are inspectors on every job and our only requirements are to tag and verify that the materials are disposed of properly and they do require that atleast one certified supervisor be on site at all times.
We do not work nationwide and i dont know if there are additional requirements that differ from state to state. your local codes may be different from mine. Your concerns should be directed more towards the remaining adhesives and your methods of removing the tiles. we generally use nitrogen blankets for large removals that will literally freeze the tiles and allow them to pop off easily. if your still using strippers and scrapers, then you are old school and need to update your equipment along with your knowledge.
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Old 03-31-2008, 04:53 PM   #49
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Tile over asbestos tile?


My dad is tuffer than your dad!

I too am certified in asbestos abatement (for a long time now) and YOU don't understand the definition of the terms you are throwing around.

Doesn't matter what the source of the definition is, the meaning is the same. Anything that can be reduced by crushing or impact is considered friable. Any process that causes a reduction in size can produce microscopic particles.

Hell man, you couldn't even spell the word much less define it.
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Old 03-31-2008, 05:46 PM   #50
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Tile over asbestos tile?


WOW ! are you really that big of an idiot? Maybe your the one that cut the cheese or simply ************ all over yourself. To believe that you are reducing the asbestos particles into microscopic particles small enough to penetrate the fiberous tissues in your lungs by popping these tiles off the floor is simply NOT TRUE! To reduce the size or crush the tiles does not mean it is small enough. And so what if i mispell a word, im not entering a spelling bee.
Like i said before, your info as well as your methods are old school.
Your source of info must be outdated.
Get your head out of your ass and UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE!
Then maybe some of your comments will be worth listening to.

We could go back n forth on this subject forever. You chose to be a smart ass from the start. Now its time to grow up and move on to another subject.
BTW, the term smart ass doesnt imply there is any form of intelligence coming from you or your ass, but i will congratulate you for winning the Spelling Bee, so take your blue ribbon and be happy.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:01 PM   #51
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Just be sure the information you put out here is accurate, that's all I ask. So far it is not.
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Old 03-31-2008, 06:21 PM   #52
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Ok, lets leave it like this. you've got your info and ive got mine. apparently we both trust our own sources even though they might conflict with each other. Be happy, you still got the blue ribbon.
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Old 04-01-2008, 01:55 AM   #53
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Thanks for your reply MD
I didn't end up using ditra, the tile is now set down over the cutback (mostly), should be able to finish one of these weekends.
The old vinyl tile is bagged up in the garage - was easy to remove, tiles popped right up whole with minimal scraping - we found that our dump will take it for $30 a yard, double bagged. We have a few asbestos exterior shingles to remove later this spring so we'll make just one trip with all of it for the same $30.

Thanks for your offer to take a look. We're in Eau Claire.
A little far from Point. But if you have experience making tile showers (kerdi?) and would be willing to help us out on another project - continuous with the tile I just laid - I can start a new thread and give you more details. Or if you're ever in the EC area (totally no rush on this project, but before summer would be nice) - I'd love you to have a look -- Or are there any tile layers from EC that read these threads and can stop by to advise?

tgf40
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:19 AM   #54
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Hi, I've been having some similar problems and came across this forum post while searching for info.

  • We have similar tile floor in one of our rooms
  • It was carpeted but due to a funny chemical odor (Almost reminds me of stale fritos and motor oil, no kidding..) we pulled the carpet.
  • The black tile was covered in an oily residue. I actually dropped a receipt on the floor and accidentally stepped on it - it looked like it was dropped in motor oil.
  • There were quite a few cracks in the tile and there were several section where chunks or pieces were broken off the tile.
  • The carpet tack strips were moldy and were also nailed directly into the tile.
  • The carpet pdding was moldy and was also discolored. It had a dark yellowish hue - looked like motor oil stains.
  • The floor was strip cleaned. Funny thing the strip cleaning launched small black globules of this oil black residue over the walls.
  • We then had the tile re-carpeted.
Here are my concerns... The tile is cracked in a lot of places and there are even big chunks of it missing. There's a funny smell coming from it and we actually feel ill in the room. If were in there longer than 15 minutes without the windows open we get headaches, dizzy and even pale. I think this floor is asbestos - that obviously isn't good. I'm also really concerned about this black oily substance and the smell which comes from the floor. I think something toxic is gassing but I can't put my finger on it. I would really appreciate any help and advice on this. Thanks.

Here's a picture of the tack board we pulled out... covered in mold.
FULL SIZE





Here's an image of the black tile which was covered in an oily film. The saw dust was there on the tile when we pulled the carpet and the padding was moldy. This picture was taken right after we pulled the carpet which was only about 2 years old.
FULL SIZE

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Old 10-12-2008, 07:06 PM   #55
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? I'd really appreciate some feedback. Thanks...
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:25 PM   #56
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Only asbestos insulation in the roll form is what you need to worry about.

I have asbestos siding. Best siding I have ever had. It's like having rock for siding....oh wait...asbestos is rock...nevermind.

Now if you were to grind on it and make it airborn....this is a different story.

If you do it yourself an N95 mask will work fine. I prefer the N100 because they fit my face better.
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:42 PM   #57
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Nicholas:

I've had lots of experience with this "oily substance" you're talking about. I've had it on the hardwood of every living room that I remove the 30 year old carpeting out of.

If it's what I think it is, it's not oil or grease at all. It's the black chips in the foam chip pad that was under the carpet. Years ago, when that underpad was made, the black foam wasn't very stable, and it decomposed after about 20 years, leaving you with blobs of black gunk all over the floor (wherever a black foam chip was) that resembles for all the world something that dropped off the underside of your car's engine.

If the floor was a lighter colour, you would have seen all kinds of black blobs everywhere on the floor, but with your black floor it was hard for you to recognize that the oily gunk occured in distinct blobs, and wasn't spread uniformly over the floor tiles.

For anyone encountering the same thing in future, the best way to remove this stuff is with a concentrated solution of powdered laundry detergent in water. You just spread it on, give some time for the detergent to work, and then clean it up with a sponge and it comes right up.

When you pulled the carpet, did you find that there were TWO underpads; a newer one installed over an old one? If so, that can happen when carpet installers don't want the homeowner to see what's under that old underpad. If he/she does, she won't want the new carpet installed over it until that black greasy gunk is cleaned up, and that screws up their whole schedule. It wouldn't have made sense for someone two years ago to install a new carpet over a worn out underpad.

But, to answer your question, you CAN install vinyl composition tile over old vinyl composition tile, and I've had good results doing that. I see no reason why you couldn't install new vinyl composition tile over old asbestos tile provided the old asbestos tile was stuck down solidly. You should strip any old floor finish off the tile first, and then use a clear VC tile adhesive like Roberts 2057. Or were you thinking of installing ceramic tile over this floor?

PS: I can't tell from the picture you posted, but the brown tiles posted by the original poster of this thread look to me like something called "asphalt tiles", which I expect probably were made with asbestos. If your tiles are hard and are the same material all the way through their thickness, then I think they're probably also asphalt tiles. I don't know when they stopped making asphalt tiles, but I think it's safe to assume that all asphalt tiles contain asbestos. I may be wrong on that, tho. But, asbestos is only dangerous if inhaled as dust, so if those tiles can be popped off the floor intact or in large pieces, the health risk would be greatly reduced. However, most likely the adhesive holding those tiles down would also contain asbestos. They used it in almost everything years ago, including toothpaste for a cleaner, whiter smile.

Also, if I recall, back then asphalt tiles (because they were harder and would crack if bent) were only installed over concrete. Over wood, they would install something called "linoleum tiles" which were constructed with an asphalt impregnated paper backing and a vinyl wear layer on top (a lot like linoleum is). So, that's a clear indication to me that you have concrete under those tiles, not wood.

Last edited by Nestor_Kelebay; 10-12-2008 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:23 PM   #58
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Thanks for all the good info. I can confirm that we do have a concrete floor under this black tile and that the tile itself is very hard / brittle. There probably was an old "black chip" pad under one of the original carpets here but I'm not sure. We've had to replace this carpet twice in the past 5 years as a result of the subtle odor coming up from the floor - after about 15 minutes without ventilation anyone in the room starts to develop a headache among other things. Although we did have the tile strip cleaned before the last insulation of carpet we still have a problem with this funny odor. I think something is gassing from the floor but I can't put my finger on it.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:48 AM   #59
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Tile over asbestos tile?


Thanks for all the good info. I can confirm that we do have a concrete floor under this black tile and that the tile itself is very hard / brittle. There probably was an old "black chip" pad under one of the original carpets here but I'm not sure. We've had to replace this carpet twice in the past 5 years as a result of the subtle odor coming up from the floor - after about 15 minutes without ventilation anyone in the room starts to develop a headache among other things. Although we did have the tile strip cleaned before the last insulation of carpet we still have a problem with this funny odor. I think something is gassing from the floor but I can't put my finger on it.

Nicholas,
did you ever solve your strange odor problem? Was it just the mold and must ? I am having a similar problem. Thanks.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:43 PM   #60
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Tile over asbestos tile?


We haven't been able to get to the bottom of it. I keep the room well ventilated which helps but it's really inconvenient. My suspicion is that something is "gassing" from the tile or the adhesives but I really don't know what it is. It's definitely coming from the floor though and steam cleaning the carpet removes the build up of the odor...

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