I am remodeling my laundry room. The house is a split level built in the 60s. I am told the floor tiles may be asbestos. They are still attached very well. Here is my dilemma. I've received advise to both remove and also to tile over. I think removal would be best suited for a professional but with new carpets in 1/2 of the basement and the heater and water heater in the same room I think it's too expensive.
Is it a wood floor under or concrete? If wood floor I would leave them and put backer board over and then tile. If concrete under I would remove them and tile right on the concrete. Removal is, in my opinion, a DIY job. Just wear a dust mask and get on with it. If the old tiles go under things like water heater, etc, just leave them in that area if you do not feel up to moving that stuff. Even easier - Just carpet over them.
You wrote that removal is a do it yourself job and to wear
a dust mask. The problem with this asbestos fibers may get on clothes and into the air. This is why it should be professionally done.
This question is subject to great debate within the tile industry. I would tile over it with a quality modified thinset like Mapei's Ultraflex 2. Their spec sheet says it will adhere well to the tile. IMNTBHO
The technical data for Ultraflex 2 says "Do not use over...substrates containing asbestos." It's in the Limitations section on the first page. My guess it that it's safe to put it on but if the covering tile is ever removed then the asbestos tile under it may fall apart and release asbestos.
I've read about temporary/permanent construction adhesive and it had the same warning. I'm interested in this because I want to install a steel track on a floor that currently has asbestos tile and I'm trying to avoid drilling. I'll probably lay "grey step stone" where under where I want the track (only one sq. ft.) and hold it down with an L bracket attached to the wall then screw the track into the stone. Or I can glue the stone to the wood on the bottom of the wall that the baseboard gets nailed into. It wouldn't work in most cases but it should work for me.
Ditra only requires the use of unmodified cements over the top side. In fact, when adhering ditra to any surface, you should use a thinset that is compatable with the surface you are bonding it to. In your case, i would use a modified cement to adhere the ditra to the sub surface and use an unmodified cement to adhere the tile to the ditra. In any case, make sure the structure below can support the tile as ditra does not add as much vertical support to the structure as Durock while it does offer greater anti-fracture properties. If you choose to use Durock, you will also need to set it in a thinset mortar that is compatable with the sub-floor as well as using a fastener. There are durock screws or you can use roofing nails which are both acceptable.
You should remove the tiles and work off the slab. If you were hiring someone and they did work as you propose, I bet you'd be leery. A few hours of hard work and you'll be done. Normally I would say that it is possible to get a good enough bond over most vinyl tiles. The problem is you don't know if the vinyl tiles will remain stuck. Often what at first seems a well bonded floor, turns out not to be.
Also, those tiles of yours are not vinyl, they are asphalt tiles. I don't know of any thinset that specifically mentions asphalt tiles as an acceptable substrate to bond to. Even if they did I would be hesitant.
Anyway, it's not as simple as you may think to go right over resilient tiles, even if it was ok to go over asphalt. Apparently you haven't read the instructions at www.schluter.com
You're wrong about the thinset. :no: I know it can be confusing, but if you're a professional and use the stuff it's really not all that hard to understand. Perhaps you haven't used Ditra much?
Download the Ditra manual and read the 32 pages.:thumbup: www.schluter.com
Jaz, I have read the manual, and Schluter DOES NOT recommend the use of modified thinset with Ditra. As far as using modified thinset on floor tiles, Mapei's ultraflex 2 or 3 adheres extremely well, and eliminates the asbestos hazard by encapsulation. Thats way better than the increased possibility of mesothelioma caused primarily by exposure to asbestos dust. IMNTBHO
Maybe you read it but I'm not sure you understand what it says, or maybe why? There is no problem using modified thinset to install Ditra. Matter of fact YOU HAVE TO when the substrate calls for it such as plywood for example. OK, so what kind of thinset would you use over plywood? You simple misread and didn't really mean to say no modified to install Ditra?
If gone fishing decides to take a chance and install Ditra over his old resilient tiles, what thinset would you recommend? That answer is obvious.
The new floor will only be down as well as the exsiting. Thats an old floor I would not trust it to hold down my new tile.
The cutback adhesive under the asphalt asbestos tiles crystallizes after a decade or two.
Have it abated.
To the guy that said removing asbestos tile is a DIY project...BAD ADVISE. Dont let Big Brother catch ya , your jobsite will be siezed, covered with a plastic bubble and youll be looking at serious fines.
Yea, if you are really concerned. The moon suit approach has lost favor in recent years and the scare is minimized.
First off - Asbestos is only a concern if its airborne. Second, its not a certainty that this tile contains asbestos. Even if it did contain asbestos it would be hard to make it airborne. If it is asbestos in the tile (or mastic) its encapsulated in the tile. Wear a dust mask, put a fan in a window. If your really concerned wear a respirator instead of a .99c mask.
Bottom line - keep it simple - Tile over the concrete. Thats the right thing to do. No use discussing other options that might work. There is no question that the tile will stick to the concrete w/o doing anything special.
I had an older house with these tiles in the kitchen area and Mike is correct, the adhesive under the asphalt asbestos tiles crystallizes and they pop loose.
I don't think the space suit gig is needed; however, if I had tiled over my floor without removing the old before putting down the new, I would have been one unhappy camper. Just my 2 pennies worth.
I agree to an extent. The stuff isnt toxic, its the finite shape of the dust that makes it stick to stuff like lung tissue. All the pros do is wet it down to keep the dust low.
Its getting caught disposing the stuff that will get you burned.
Goatta say, the stuff usually comes up easy..errr...so I heard
Ok, if I decided to remove myself here would be my plan:
1) Turn off heater
2) Tape plastic over heater vents
3) Seal off rest of house
4) Soak tiles in a soap/water mixture
5) Wear some tyvek, gloves, respirator, and goggles (easy since I sell safety equipment)
6) Use putty knife to remove tiles
7) Put into plastic bags and dispose of correctly.
Look good?
Next questions...what do I do with the glue or mastic that will likely be on the floor when I am done? Am I missing any steps?
Funny thing is that when I worked for a contractor I remember removing a few houses worth of these tiles with nothing more than a scraper and sledge hammer.
Funny thing is that when I worked for a contractor I remember removing a few houses worth of these tiles with nothing more than a scraper and sledge hammer.
I am REALLY torn here...besides not being able to find a plumber to reroute a gas pipe I need answers.
1) If I sell the house in 5-7 years (game plan to get a bigger home) will I have trouble when it's obvious I removed the tiles? I cannot get under the heater nor behind it to remove the tiles.
2) Can I seal the tiles then tile over top? The only spots that aren't 100% are on the edges behind the washer where I will have trim.
3) Any thing else?
Lets step back a little - Can you provide a wide shot picture of the area to include the area with the gas pipe, heater, etc?
No problems selling the house per se. If it looks like a hack job then it could detract. Is this A new house for you? I guess I'm thinking just leave well enough alone. Clean and wax what you have and get goin fishin!
Others have posted ^^^ up there ^^^ how you would go about tiling over. Its more than "sealing them", thats why others, like me, say remove them. PM me, I have some thoughts I do not want to share on the board at the moment.
For what it's worth, I just removed about 250 sf of asbestos/asphalt tile from my place, and it wasn't that big a deal. Now, I'm not an expert on asbestos abatement, so maybe it was a big mistake and I'll die of lung cancer. But I'm willing to take my chances. Here's how I did mine and it went fine:
I sealed off the area I was working on, opened the windows and shut off the furnace. I used a particulate air (purple) respirator, and segregated the clothes I wore while working on it.
I popped the tiles up very gently using a 6" metal putty knife to minimize breakage. They came off the slab pretty easily. I double bagged the tiles in heavy bags and took them to the local hazmat center for disposal.
The black mastic I took off with bean-e-doo, which is harmless, keeps the area wet, and worked well enough. I found it worked better if I left it on overnight. Then I used the same 6" putty knife and an old dustpan to scrape up the goo and put it in an old paint can for disposal.
Finally cleaned all the oil and residue off the floor with TSP and water until the slab was clean.
It came out very nicely, and wasn't too expensive. The bean-e-doo will run you about $40 per 150 sf depending on how thickly you put it on. Otherwise all it cost was the cost of the respirator, bags, and putty knife.
Once again I know nothing about asbestos abatement, and it's not illegal in my state to do it yourself. Just sharing how I chose to do it - I really couldn't stomach the idea of putting more floor over it and stomping it into a more powdery state for someone else to deal with years from now.
At the same time I didn't want to pay a whole bunch of money for someone to deal with non-friable asbestos.
So, after reviewing the pictures the question remains...do I cover after sealing or remove as much as possible? I am not sure of the laws in Pa. I cannot track down anything online. My worry is that I remove now and when we go to sell we get caught and pay out the wazoo..
Thoughts?
OH my these are the tiles I have in my house and I had them tested. Asbestos loaded indeed. I am now trying to figure out how to seal them in or remove them. Look up your city's local asbestos removal website
Ok, decided to remove the tiles. Accidentally popped up one yesterday anyway. Here is my latest question...i will remove them next week and wet scrap up as much mastic as possible. Do I then use self level or thinset...let dry then tile? I need to frame out a door for the water heater and heater.
Thanks!
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