Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Flooring

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-23-2013, 09:57 AM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Share |
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


I need some advice and validation before I start installing my heated tiled bathroom floor.
Weve completed demo, and I can now see what under the original flooring, it tongue and groove strand board. Upon inspection, the builder was somewhat light on attaching it to the floor joist, so my first step is to finish securing with a few more nails.
Now for a few questions .
Is T&G adequate for support, I know any give in a tile floor is a bad thing. Im not seeing any give, but I dont mind going to entra effort/cost just to make extra sure. I plan on covering the subfloor with a cement board, however Ive read various information that some suggest adding an additional plywood underlayment, before the cement board, to help reinforce. Or is both a plywood and a cement board together overkill?
I plan on using Suntouch WarmWire product, and Ditra underlayment for my floor.
Therefore if I go with this logic, my tile floor sandwich will be the following:
Top
Tile
Unmodified thinset
Ditra
Unmodified thin set
Suntouch Warmwire Product and self-leveling mortar
Cement Board
Plywood reinforcement
T & G Subfloor
Bottom/Floor Joists
Any thoughts or feedback on this layout would be appreciated.
Jim

jibennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:01 AM   #2
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,200
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


Check the Schluter website www.schluter.com. There is extensive information on exactly how to install tile floor, including tile floor with electric heat, using their Ditra product. They discuss at length minimum required subfloor requirements.

Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:46 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


Thanks for the input.

I have read, and re-read based on your suggestion, now I'm wondering if I can use the Ditra product. I'm using a mosaic basket weave tile, based on the data for heated floors, the minimum tile for use is 2" x 2". Therefore I think this excludes the use of Ditra.
jibennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 12:19 PM   #4
Civil Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,200
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


I have a mosaic style stone floor in my kitchen. The stone is from Bali, and includes quartzite and several other types of stone. The stone comes in 12"x12" mesh backed pieces, and each piece includes anywhere from 5 to 20 individual pieces of stone, glued to the mesh, and arranged relatively tightly.

We installed this mosaic stone in the kitchen over electric heat, and used Ditra between the thinset that covered the electric heat and the tile thinset. This was several years ago, it has worked very nicely. I am not sure why Schluter believes that the minimum tile size is 2x2 inch, you can always give them a call. In my case, some of the stone pieces are smaller than that, and it has not been a problem.
Daniel Holzman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 10:49 PM   #5
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,070
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


I don't think it would be a problem but Schluter says that cuz of the 1/2" divots in Ditra. They're afraid a small piece like 3/4" tile, would not be properly supported under load. Remember the spec covers commercial installations too.

Here's what you can do. Remember I will not guarantee it and neither will Schluter. Fill all the divots after installing the Ditra then install the tiles the next day. I believe this will solve any problem.

Your sandwich in post #1 is just fine, but you do not need the 1/2" concrete backer unless you need it for height. If you do need it for height, you're better of going 5/8" ply and using the CBU made for floors which is 1/4" or so depending on brand. Plus, don't forget the SLC over the SunTouch may end up being thicker than planned. It'll seek it's own level.

I'm assuming the subfloor is OSB and so the house isn't real old, and therefore the joists meet L360 deflection....right?

Jaz
__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 10:53 AM   #6
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


Thanks for the reply and input.

The house was built in 1995, and the subfloor is OSB. Although I havent validated the L360 deflection specification, I assume it does meet based on the age of the house.

I have an email into Schluter regarding the use of Ditra, and the use of smaller than 2" x 2" tiles. Hopefully I'll get an answer to help validate my applicaton.

Now I'm ready to begin the re-building process, if I can get my wife from changeing the design layout hour by hour.
jibennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 09:25 AM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


I received a prompt reply from Schluter Systems.

Good morning and thank you for contacting Schluter-Systems! Unfortunately the mesh does not make a difference with your tile being under 2" X 2" as far as the warranty. Therefore if you did proceed we would not be able to provide a warranty for your application. However people have proceeded, voiding their warranty, but have success. Our best recommendation outside of the DITRA guidelines would be to prefill the cavities on top of the DITRA with unmodified thin set, after installing it to your substrate. Then proceed after 24 hours with the rest of the thin set and installing your tile.
jibennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2013, 03:10 PM   #8
Tileguy
 
JazMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Troy, Michigan
Posts: 4,070
Default

Tile Floor Sandwich


Quote:
Originally Posted by jibennett View Post
I received a prompt reply from Schluter Systems.

Good morning and thank you for contacting Schluter-Systems! Unfortunately the mesh does not make a difference with your tile being under 2" X 2" as far as the warranty. Therefore if you did proceed we would not be able to provide a warranty for your application. However people have proceeded, voiding their warranty, but have success. Our best recommendation outside of the DITRA guidelines would be to prefill the cavities on top of the DITRA with unmodified thin set, after installing it to your substrate. Then proceed after 24 hours with the rest of the thin set and installing your tile.
What a brilliant answer, that person knows their stuff!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan
Here's what you can do. Remember I will not guarantee it and neither will Schluter. Fill all the divots after installing the Ditra then install the tiles the next day. I believe this will solve any problem.
Question. What kind of warranty were you expecting and under what scenario do you think Ditra could be proven defective?

Jaz

__________________
Tile 4 You LLC Troy, MI

DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
JazMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Solving discontinued tile issue timbo59 Flooring 14 10-03-2012 08:03 PM
Asbestos Removal, Porcelain Tile Installation jimbriam Flooring 15 01-30-2012 01:46 PM
Removing Tile Over Hardwood: Need Help With Kitchen/Bath Creelove Flooring 3 02-01-2011 06:03 AM
Laying Subfloor for New Bathroom Question rjschwar Kitchen & Bath Remodeling 3 06-25-2010 03:06 PM
Preping for ceramic tile install leroyme Flooring 21 11-29-2007 03:31 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.