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Old 01-27-2012, 01:43 PM   #1
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Tile Failure - new job


I have a 60 sq. foot bathroom. Just reframed it, 2X8 joists spanning 5', 16" OC, two layers of 3/4" tongue and groove ply glued and screwed to joists and laminated together. 1/2" durock thinsetted and screwed down onto that.

I have a diamond pattern slate mosaic, on 12" square mesh backed sheets.

Went to my local tile store for a bag of thinset. Guy asked if I needed latex mod or non mod. I told him what I had and he said I'd be fine with the non. modified.

So, I installed it about two weeks ago and haven't had a chance to grout it until today. As I was pre-sealing, I noticed one loose tile. There was also one tile was upside down, so I removed it and replaced it. I thought it came out "too easily."
And right from the install something seemed off with the thinset. I've done 3-4 other tile jobs (pretty sure always with latex modified thinset), including two custom shower stalls, with no issues after several years.

So, I went to see if I could easily lift the tiles off. Grabbed one at the doorway where the edges are exposed and was able to pry it off bare handed.
Then, once I loosened one or two tiles, I was able to easily peel off the entire 12" square sheet and the whole floor came up in literally two minutes, not a single broken tile.
The mesh is partially covered with the thinset, and there is a lot of it on the floor. A lot of dust, almost like the thinset was bad (moisture) to begin with.

The big question is, is the reason this failed because it should had been LATEX MODIFIED thinset? Or are there other factors at hand?
Am I justified in going back to this guy to show him what happened (I took a video of me removing the tiles)?

Thanks!

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Old 01-27-2012, 10:08 PM   #2
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Tile Failure - new job


It wouldn't hurt to use latex-modified mortar, but the normal stuff wouldn't fail like that immediately either.

I think the problem must be something fairly obvious.

Did you remember to coat the backside of the tile with vaseline before you set them in the mud?

Did you prime the tile with diesel fuel first?

To be able to grab a whole sheet of tile and pull them up is really something.

I find it quite a challenge to remove a tile right after I have set it.

Did you spread out the mortar and let it skin over before setting the tile? Did you skim coat the mortar on the floor with a plastering trowel?

I really don't know what could have happened, but it was a very big, obvious failure. Maybe no cement in the mortar? Is it all crumbly now?

I don't think it hurts to moisten a slap with a mop or sponging before laying tile, and the same goes for durock. It is much more porous than a product like Denshield, and I think the bond is much stronger as well, but only if it is cured properly. I don't think there is anything wrong with laying tile or pouring concrete in a room with 55 degrees, in fact I prefer it.

Let us know what the ver is, dick.

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Old 01-28-2012, 07:30 AM   #3
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Tile Failure - new job


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleveman View Post
It wouldn't hurt to use latex-modified mortar, but the normal stuff wouldn't fail like that immediately either.

I think the problem must be something fairly obvious.

Did you remember to coat the backside of the tile with vaseline before you set them in the mud?

Did you prime the tile with diesel fuel first?

To be able to grab a whole sheet of tile and pull them up is really something.

I find it quite a challenge to remove a tile right after I have set it.

Did you spread out the mortar and let it skin over before setting the tile? Did you skim coat the mortar on the floor with a plastering trowel?

I really don't know what could have happened, but it was a very big, obvious failure. Maybe no cement in the mortar? Is it all crumbly now?

I don't think it hurts to moisten a slap with a mop or sponging before laying tile, and the same goes for durock. It is much more porous than a product like Denshield, and I think the bond is much stronger as well, but only if it is cured properly. I don't think there is anything wrong with laying tile or pouring concrete in a room with 55 degrees, in fact I prefer it.

Let us know what the ver is, dick.
This is complete nonsense --What is this 'vasoline and diesel oil ' stuff--
If it's a joke --it's a bad one ---


Sounds like bad thinset---was it a high quality brand?
Was it fresh off the shelf or stored somewhere damp before use??

More details---brand--product--age of powder---
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:07 PM   #4
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Tile Failure - new job


Quote:
This is complete nonsense --What is this 'vasoline and diesel oil ' stuff--
If it's a joke --it's a bad one ---
What do you expect? It was Friday night in zentral Iowa, lots of corn juice....

I agree with him though, I think it was mainly poor workmanship, although the specs recommend modified mortar.

As far as liability, it is the responsibility of the installer to use the right products for the job and do it right. You can not expect someone who gives you free advice to do more than exchange a "wrong" product they sold you. He should at minimum apologize, give you a free bag of better thinset.

What specific series and brand of thinset did you use?

Jaz
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