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Old 07-28-2010, 08:49 PM   #1
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Starting tonight, I will be screwing down the twelve year old OSB into the I-Beam joisting it's been nailed to since being built. I'm using tan 1 5/8 Deck Screws. The 5lb box from Home Depot for $28 + tax.

Then I'll be gluing & screwing down 1/4" Luan on top of this.

Then I'll be laying down 1/4" hardieboard.

Then I'll be laying down 20x20" tile.

My question is, I'm real big on having a quiet house. Is there anything I can do during this process to make it more quiet downstairs, when someone is walking on the tile upstairs?

Btw, this is my first time doing any of this. I'm a "so-so to middlin" DIY'er.

Thanks!

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Old 07-30-2010, 07:01 AM   #2
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Maybe roofers felt between the OSB & luan?

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Old 08-01-2010, 05:51 AM   #3
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


NobleSeal SIS
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:55 PM   #4
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Luan is inapropriate for use under tile. Replace it with 3/4" plywood that is glued and screwed.
Using a 20" tile requires the correct joist size and span. The floor has to be much more stable or the tile will crack.
If you want sound deadening, insulate the joists underneath and use a channeling system to isolate the sheetrock from the joists.
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Old 08-02-2010, 06:54 AM   #5
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Thanks guys.
3/4" plywood would raise the floor height pretty far up, did you mean to suggest that size?

3/4" plywood followed by 1/4" hardiboard followed by tile (1/2"?). That is a floor height of almost 2" after thinset?

Thanks for the SIS link. I'll look into cost for it!

My flooring has horizontal I-Beam joists. I have added small strips of vertical I-beam between the horizontal runs for added strength.

Thanks guys!
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:19 AM   #6
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


You might consider simply adding 1/4" or 3/8" cement board over this original OSB you're fixing. Look at adding a damping compound between the OSB and cement board. The thickness of the damping layer is insignificant.
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:37 AM   #7
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Ted,

FWIW, I recognize you from AVS Forum.

Do you have any opinion on the various tile isolation membranes (Nobelseal SIS, Laticrete 170, Easymat, etc.) that are marketed as also reducing transmission of impact noise?
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:44 AM   #8
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Hi Tom,

The membranes are fine if you don't secure them with screws. The screws remove most of the resilience that the membranes are bringing to the table.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:28 AM   #9
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


I see. From what I understand, the typical installation is to apply/adhere the membrane to plywood and then tile directly on top of that with thinset. I haven't seen a product that was designed to be screwed down, but it wouldn't surprise me, either.

This article seems to suggest that Green Glue can perform a similar function:



Which product would you prefer? Would either type of product mitigate sound from below, as well? Would screwing the cement board down on top of the Green Glue reduce the Green Glue's damping properties?
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Old 08-02-2010, 12:15 PM   #10
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Rubber underlayments are used if the finished floor is floated on the rubber. Fine for tile or engineered wood floors. Not fine if you nail.

In this role, the rubber is a decoupling material. Green Glue is a damping material. Different roles. Green Glue can and should have screws throughout it

Are you also decoupling the ceiling below?
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:00 PM   #11
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


I may or may not decouple the ceiling below...not immediately, anyway.

Let me explain the situation, though. I'm installing tile flooring in my kitchen remodel, which is above, though not directly above, my basement home theater-to-be. At this point, I just want to get the tile installed in such a way as to decrease impact noise. Reducing noise transmission upward from the basement would be a nice bonus, though.

Due to height concerns in the basement, anything I can do on the floor above to reduce sound transmission one way or the other is a nice plus. I'm leaning towards not using clips/hat channel due to the lost ceiling height. I know you can install them parallel to the joists to avoid this, but that just sounds (no pun intended ) like a hassle to me.

One thing I'm wary of...in that diagram from Green Glue, they're basically using the GG in place of the thinset you would normally use between the plywood and cement board. I have a feeling that the tile pros are going to say that's a bad idea. Thoughts?
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #12
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Thinset goes on top. It's what you set the tile in. Thinset mortar. Usually it's construction adhesive used under the cement board.

Decoupling the ceiling later will be a BIG improvement, so please consider it.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:14 PM   #13
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Ted, thanks for your help.

Yes, I imagine I will reconsider decoupling as that project draws near. Dealing with a neverending kitchen remodel makes me want to take every shortcut, but I think I'll find it easier to do without a working basement as compared to being without a working kitchen.

One more question, 3 sides of my home theater area are already finished (drywall on stud walls). These walls are also foundation walls (cement block). The ceiling is just a drop ceiling. Ideally, I'd like to leave the foundation walls as-is and just drywall the ceiling and add a 4th wall (staggered stud/double drywall/GG). Anecdotally, how much isolation am I giving up if I only treat the ceiling and the new wall?

By the way, I'm almost certain that its standard practice to use thinset in between the plywood and cement board when preparing a floor for tile. Construction adhesive or Green Glue will not fully support the cement board or fill the voids between it and the subfloor. Maybe someone else can confirm that, but I'm about 99% sure after doing some reading here and at johnbridge.com.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:22 PM   #14
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TomServo View Post

One more question, 3 sides of my home theater area are already finished (drywall on stud walls). These walls are also foundation walls (cement block). The ceiling is just a drop ceiling. Ideally, I'd like to leave the foundation walls as-is and just drywall the ceiling and add a 4th wall (staggered stud/double drywall/GG). Anecdotally, how much isolation am I giving up if I only treat the ceiling and the new wall?
If the ceiling is low enough, you can have the ceiling drywall intersect the foundation. Seal the ceiling drywall to the cement and you'll have no soundproofing need for a wall in front of the foundation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomServo View Post
By the way, I'm almost certain that its standard practice to use thinset in between the plywood and cement board when preparing a floor for tile. Construction adhesive or Green Glue will not fully support the cement board or fill the voids between it and the subfloor. Maybe someone else can confirm that, but I'm about 99% sure after doing some reading here and at johnbridge.com.
I see what you're saying. Here they describe both adhesive and thinset. http://www.usg.com/rc/installation-a...e-en-CB237.pdf

Damping materials like GG have been used for almost 10 years under tile. The GG compresses so thin that there are no voids to concern us.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:51 AM   #15
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Soundproof under tile in upstairs bathroom?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post
If the ceiling is low enough, you can have the ceiling drywall intersect the foundation. Seal the ceiling drywall to the cement and you'll have no soundproofing need for a wall in front of the foundation.
That's great news, Ted. The foundation walls are already finished with drywall, though, which is why I want to avoid replacing them...does that change the equation? Can I just seal the new ceiling to the drywall with acoustical caulk? The ceiling would be low enough to intersect with the existing walls.

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