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-   -   Slate or ceramic tile Flooring questions (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/slate-ceramic-tile-flooring-questions-109223/)

oldschoolboy 06-29-2011 09:21 PM

Slate or ceramic tile Flooring questions
 
I want to lay some type of tile at the entry. It is a small area of 4'x7'. The entry is now covered in parquet that we don't like (house built in 1999). The subfloor is 3/4 or 7/8 on joists @ 24" o.c. (need to check on that).

Questions:

1: How do you remove the glue form under the parquet flooring? Just scrap it off?
2: What does the flooring need to be under the tile for this small an area? Add 1/4" cement board to subfloor then mortor and tile?
3:The tile will be surrounded by 3/4" hardwood floors going in after the tile work. Will the tile and hardwoods be the same height? Can I make them the same height?

Stanchek 06-29-2011 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschoolboy
I want to lay some type of tile at the entry. It is a small area of 4'x7'. The entry is now covered in parquet that we don't like (house built in 1999). The subfloor is 3/4 or 7/8 on joists @ 24" o.c. (need to check on that).

Questions:

1: How do you remove the glue form under the parquet flooring? Just scrap it off?
2: What does the flooring need to be under the tile for this small an area? Add 1/4" cement board to subfloor then mortor and tile?
3:The tile will be surrounded by 3/4" hardwood floors going in after the tile work. Will the tile and hardwoods be the same height? Can I make them the same height?

The only way I've found to get up parquet is to just scrape. Sometimes I just replace the subfloor because it's faster. You could alway put transitions between the tile and hardwoods, but personally I like a smooth transition. You didn't say what the hardwoods are going on. Is it the same plywood that the parquet is on? If so, 1/4 in cement board on top of the subfloor would work good. If you wait until the hardwoods are in, you can then lay your tile to the exact height of the wood. Tile before, and your just guessing the height, because of sanding and finish variations. When you finish the tile, don't grout the lines against the wood floors or they will crack. You should use a color matched grout caulk.

oldschoolboy 06-29-2011 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanchek (Post 676906)
The only way I've found to get up parquet is to just scrape. Sometimes I just replace the subfloor because it's faster. You could alway put transitions between the tile and hardwoods, but personally I like a smooth transition. You didn't say what the hardwoods are going on. Is it the same plywood that the parquet is on? If so, 1/4 in cement board on top of the subfloor would work good. If you wait until the hardwoods are in, you can then lay your tile to the exact height of the wood. Tile before, and your just guessing the height, because of sanding and finish variations. When you finish the tile, don't grout the lines against the wood floors or they will crack. You should use a color matched grout caulk.

Everything is on the same subfloor level. I was thinking about doing the tile first to avoid the moisture getting to the hardwood floors. If the other way is better than I am all for it. Thanks for the reply.

Stanchek 06-29-2011 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschoolboy

Everything is on the same subfloor level. I was thinking about doing the tile first to avoid the moisture getting to the hardwood floors. If the other way is better than I am all for it. Thanks for the reply.

You shouldn't have any moisture problem at all. I assume you meant from the mortar. Yeah, it's just that you have a little play with the height of the tile. With the wood, you have none. I would do the math before hand, just to be sure you have room for the 1/4 in cement board. Good luck

JazMan 06-29-2011 10:34 PM

The tile should be done first. The other way is not better. You should have a piece of the wood handy to help gauge the transition.

Forget natural stone tiles on a single layer subfloor especially if the joists are 24 o.c. Chances are the joists won't meet the deflection requirements for slate. Ceramic/porcelain should be fine if the home was built to modern codes and everything is in good shape.

There are several ways to get to 3/4" with concrete backers. Backers come in at least 4 thicknesses, 1/4-5/16-3/8-1/2". Tiles vary too as you know. Add about 1/8" total for the thin set under the backer and to set the tiles.

Jaz

Stanchek 06-30-2011 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazMan
The tile should be done first. The other way is not better. You should have a piece of the wood handy to help gauge the transition.

Forget natural stone tiles on a single layer subfloor especially if the joists are 24 o.c. Chances are the joists won't meet the deflection requirements for slate. Ceramic/porcelain should be fine if the home was built to modern codes and everything is in good shape.

There are several ways to get to 3/4" with concrete backers. Backers come in at least 4 thicknesses, 1/4-5/16-3/8-1/2". Tiles vary too as you know. Add about 1/8" total for the thin set under the backer and to set the tiles.

Jaz

Do that at your own peril. You won't know the exact height of the finished hardwoods till they're done. Also, you don't even know the joist spread or weather or not there are slat boards under it. And you could always add more support under the entry if needed.

Bud Cline 06-30-2011 12:30 AM

First you MUST verify the joist spacing and the subfloor thickness before you can get any straight answers for your questions. Jumping the gun accomplishes nothing.

Quote:

Is it the same plywood that the parquet is on? If so, 1/4 in cement board on top of the subfloor would work good.
Here we go again Stancheski. If the subfloor is in fact only 3/4" thick, and the joists are in fact spaced 24" on center, adding 1/4" cement board isn't the way to go. The deflection-between-the-joists will be much too great to support the tile properly.:) That is a prescription for cracking tile and grout in the near future.:eek:

Let's get some facts together before we go off screwing up someone's new flooring.:)

Stanchek 06-30-2011 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Cline
First you MUST verify the joist spacing and the subfloor thickness before you can get any straight answers for your questions. Jumping the gun accomplishes nothing.

Here we go again Stancheski. If the subfloor is in fact only 3/4" thick, and the joists are in fact spaced 24" on center, adding 1/4" cement board isn't the way to go. The deflection-between-the-joists will be much too great to support the tile properly.:) That is a prescription for cracking tile and grout in the near future.:eek:

Let's get some facts together before we go off screwing up someone's new flooring.:)

True enough, I read his post to quickly and jumped over that fact. But since he wants to match the levels of the floors, adding some support from underneath is about the only way to go, is it not? Also, would you agree that the tile should be done after the hardwoods? Every time we've tried to do the tile first in these situations, the height was just slightly different.

Bud Cline 06-30-2011 12:50 PM

I don't waste any time on trying to match elevations perfectly. It takes a lot of time and money and varying transitions are common and don't hurt a thing. If person wants to be anal about it then they can spend their time figuring how to get it perfect.:)

Doesn't matter to me if wood or tile goes first. I always use a metal edging at the juncture and I would rather be there first. This way I'm not apologizing for some dumb ass wood installer that can't square-up and match end cuts in his floor. A lot of those guys depend on lapping juncture materials to cover their butts.:) I don't want to apologize for his errors.:)

oldschoolboy 07-01-2011 08:02 AM

The floor joists are 16" o.c. and the subfloor is 3/4" thick tongue and grove osb glued to the joisted. I remove a "tile" of parquet and it has plywood under it. So I might be ok after all.

Hardwoods first or tile work first?

oldschoolboy 07-02-2011 07:15 PM

Under carpet is just 3/4" osb flooring I am assuming it is tounge and groove but not sure. I believe I will go with wood floors first so I can get the tile to work out with the floor height.

Thanks for everyone's reply's!

JazMan 07-02-2011 10:49 PM

Quote:

I believe I will go with wood floors first so I can get the tile to work out with the floor height.
That's fine do it that way. I would do the "dirtiest" part first, the ceramic. You know, the possible water spills, scratching of the new wood etc. I just install one or two scrap pieces of the wood floor across the doorway, then remove it when the tile is finished.

Quote:

Do that at your own peril.
Relax Stan, it's not a critical difference. Matter of fact my way can save damaging the new hardwood.

Quote:

The floor joists are 16" o.c. and the subfloor is 3/4" thick tongue and grove osb
That's fine, pretty standard. But without knowing what the span of the joists is, and the species and grade, we still don't know anything about the deflection.

Jaz


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