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Old 02-22-2013, 05:32 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetSwet

Then add the additive or get durabond ditra set.
But Schluter does not recommend the modified over Ditra. I'd use the durabond ditra set if I could find it in my area.

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Old 02-22-2013, 05:35 PM   #47
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Louis,

I understand exactly what you're talking about. We've been arguing that point for many years.

When installed in the traditional way, you should use modified thinset to install all porcelain tiles and to get a good bond to plywood regardless of the type. But Ditra and Kerdi are not traditional. You'll get a good enough bond using unmodified over Ditra and that's what Schluter recommends. However, some people don't care about any Schluter warranty and go ahead and use modified anyway. Some have campaigned to recommend an entry-level (inexpensive) modified like Versabond, because it's easy to find. (at the orange place). I don't have a problem with that just to ease people's mind.

Note: I used a high quality modified over Ditra for several years before I realized the cheaper unmodified will work just fine over Ditra. That's the difference, (Ditra) cuz it removes the stress that might make unmod fail over a traditional substrate like concrete backer.

BTW, modified mortars were developed in the late '70's and '80's, because imported Italian tiles were becoming popular and there were lots of failures when using special mastics on plywood. But porcelain tiles were around for ages. How do you suppose they were bonded? That's right, regular thinset and also using the neat-cement method, no modified at all.

Have you read Schluter's explanation on why unmodified?

Quote:
I'd use the durabond ditra set if I could find it in my area.
They're located in your general area New England, with factories all over. Look for Durabond, & Hydroment. Also Custom Building Products developed and equal a year or 2 ago. Custom is the brand that HD carries although not that item. Find a real tile shop near you that is up to date on products.


Jaz
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DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.

Last edited by JazMan; 02-22-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:54 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan
Louis,

I understand exactly what you're talking about. We've been arguing that point for many years.

When installed in the traditional way, you should use modified thinset to install all porcelain tiles and to get a good bond to plywood regardless of the type. But Ditra and Kerdi are not traditional. You'll get a good enough bond using unmodified over Ditra and that's what Schluter recommends. However, some people don't care about any Schluter warranty and go ahead and use modified anyway. Some have campaigned to recommend an entry-level (inexpensive) modified like Versabond, because it's easy to find. (at the orange place). I don't have a problem with that just to ease people's mind.

Note: I used a high quality modified over Ditra for several years before I realized the cheaper unmodified will work just fine over Ditra. That's the difference, (Ditra) cuz it removes the stress that might make unmod fail over a traditional substrate like concrete backer.

BTW, modified mortars were developed in the late '70's and '80's, because imported Italian tiles were becoming popular and there were lots of failures when using special mastics on plywood. But porcelain tiles were around for ages. How do you suppose they were bonded? That's right, regular thinset and also using the neat-cement method, no modified at all.

Have you read Schluter's explanation on why unmodified?

They're located in your general area New England, with factories all over. Look for Durabond, & Hydroment. Also Custom Building Products developed and equal a year or 2 ago. Custom is the brand that HD carries although not that item. Find a real tile shop near you that is up to date on products.

Jaz
Jaz,

Thanks for the explanation. Unless I can find the Ditra thinset I'll probably not be fully satisfied with either solution simply because the Laticrete and Schluter don't agree but I need to pick something else this tile will never get set! I need to make a few calls on the Ditra set.

Louis
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:01 PM   #49
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You will never find ditra set its like a legend product.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetSwet
You will never find ditra set its like a legend product.
I suspect you are right.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
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I suspect you are right.
Imo... ditra should come with a bag of ditra-set.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo
Laticrete and Schluter don't agree
They don't need to agree, Laticrete does not make Ditra.

Keep in mind that Schluter does not tell you to use Ditraset, just to use an unmodified mortar. Any mortar that meets ANSI A118.1 will do. Those of us in the installation side recommend a premium unmodified for its quality and workability, but even the very cheap mortars sold at the orange and blue places do meet the minimum specs. I don't mind spending some more $$ to get better stuff, after all I'm using Ditra which costs me about 2x more than concrete backers.

317 is good stuff, Mapei's Kerabond, good stuff, Tec's Full Set +, many others including the uncoupling mortars we've discussed.

Jaz
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:29 PM   #53
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Quote:
You will never find ditra set its like a legend product.
Try Dal Tile, I don't know what they carry, but they're listed as a "Bostik" Hydroment dealer. They may not sell to you direct though. They're near West Ave. S. of I-95 on the west side of town.

18 WARSHAW PL
STAMFORD, CT 06902
203-323-9490

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Last edited by JazMan; 02-22-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan

Try Dal Tile, I don't know what they carry, but they're listed as a "Bostik" Hydroment dealer. They may not sell to you direct though. They're near West Ave. S. of I-95 on the west side of town.

18 WARSHAW PL
STAMFORD, CT 06902
203-323-9490

Jaz
They won't sell to me. Already tried on other product.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:40 PM   #55
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Never tiled porcelain over ditra so get to know something new here again.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:55 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetswet
Never tiled porcelain over ditra so get to know something new here again.
What do you mean? Just about every floor tile out there is porcelain. I guess you've never used Ditra. It's been out there since 1987.

Jaz
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathelo
Never tiled porcelain over ditra so get to know something new here again.
Ok, fine, they shouldn't sell to you direct, but they will tell you if they carry what you want and you can go to a local store.

Jaz
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DITRA Installs - KERDI Watertight-Mold-Free Showers. I have NEVER made a mistake, I thought I did ONCE, but, I was WRONG! A+ BBB rating - est. 1987 - over 50 yrs. exp.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMan View Post

What do you mean? Just about every floor tile out there is porcelain. I guess you've never used Ditra. It's been out there since 1987.

Jaz
Sorry to disappoint you Jaz, Ceramic over ditra yes! Porcelain over backer board yes. Im just being honest.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:17 PM   #59
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OK Mark, no problem. I just can't remember the last tile I set soft bisque ceramic on a floor. Those were the days.....everything was much easier.

Jaz
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:38 PM   #60
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Quote:
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OK Mark, no problem. I just can't remember the last tile I set soft bisque ceramic on a floor. Those were the days.....everything was much easier.

Jaz
Shoot...I still know guys who charge extra for ceramic installs.....

Ive done 2 ditra installs so far....eehhh... not a fan I keep thinking im on that holmes show lol

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