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joe_cole5000 12-19-2010 08:34 AM

Sir Bud if your out there????
 
Sir Bud,

I have gutted a enclosed patio 12 X 50, concrete slab foundation with signs of horizonal movement, cracks less than 1 mm. I came across some porcelain tile, (Antica Ceramica Arte, ML21-Piedre, Monteleone if that means anything to you) that I want to install. My questions are;

1) Because the foundation has had moment as shown by the cracking, do I need a Ditra-like barrier on the entire substraite or can I just address the cracked regions? The entire floor is over a grand to cover.

2) What barrier do you favor, Ditra, Nobel Seal, ???

3) Specifically what adhesive should be used for tile / barrier / substrate?

4) Do I need to have the concrete tested for moisture and who does that kind of testing?
Thanks in advance
Joe in Dallas

Bud Cline 12-19-2010 01:49 PM

Wow! That's a tough one to answer from here. Soil conditions vary greatly throughout the Dallas Metroplex area. East and south there is a lot of stone not too far below the surface whereas north and west soils can vary greatly. The soils have a high clay content and are susceptible to movement during rains. The White Rock area is usually a lot more stable than the Arlington area for example. Lewisville experiences heavy clay areas while Grapevine not so much.

Quote:

1) Because the foundation has had moment as shown by the cracking, do I need a Ditra-like barrier on the entire substraite or can I just address the cracked regions? The entire floor is over a grand to cover.
If the cracks are not higher on one side of the crack then on the other side your movement is obviously lateral and you could be OK. If one side is higher than the other then nothing will save the tile from eventually cracking.

Quote:

2) What barrier do you favor, Ditra, Nobel Seal, ???

They are both quality products but their purposes are somewhat different. I would be thinking DITRA in this case.

Quote:

3) Specifically what adhesive should be used for tile / barrier / substrate?

DITRA requires a good modified thinset for installation and then unmodified thinset for the tile application. The "unmodified" is used because to use modified could greatly extend the curing time.

If it were me however...I would use Custom's Mega Flex thinset or something similar and give the tile application plenty of time to heal before getting on it to grout.

Keep in mind that even Megaflex teamed with DITRA may not/will not compensate for a serious movement in the substrate.

Where are you in the Dallas area?:)

joe_cole5000 12-19-2010 05:51 PM

Dallas here
 
Bud, as always thanks for replying. I live in NW Dallas, 35 and Walnut Hill just south of 635 / 35.

Also, one part of my initial question related to using a barrier only on the cracked regions....any thought?

Thanks again
Joe

Bud Cline 12-19-2010 06:14 PM

Quote:

I live in NW Dallas, 35 and Walnut Hill just south of 635 / 35.
I remember what we used to call "Restaurant Row" in that area. My memory also tells me that area is heavy clay deposits and therefore risk of movement in the soils similar to the Arlington areas. It's been a long time.:)

How about the cracks themselves? Are they at different heights from side to side of any given particular crack?:)

Quote:

Also, one part of my initial question related to using a barrier only on the cracked regions....any thought?

I used that approach for a long time with good success as far as I remember. The problem with doing it that way is it creates a hump that needs to be negotiated when installing the tile. Depending on the size of tile being used, a person would address the crack in a manner that would allow the isolation membrane to extend beyond the actual crack the distance of at least one full tile in all directions. In this case the Noble CIS would be preferable. The tile will want to teeter and that's an issue you would just have to work with and somehow "play out" as the tiling progresses.

It is an approach that in theory sounds simple but in reality creates problems.:)


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