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-   -   Simpled Subfloor in Basement and Vents (http://www.diychatroom.com/f5/simpled-subfloor-basement-vents-168722/)

ixj 01-09-2013 08:22 PM

Simpled Subfloor in Basement and Vents
 
I'm interested to know people's thoughts on mitigating against water that may puddle underneath a dimpled subfloor such as Superseal, Delta-FL, or Platon in the basement. These dimpled subfloors act as a moisture barrier but allow a small, 1/8" air gap that allows some air movement to the edges of the floor. My assumption is that water that puddles underneath one of these floors could have a slow drying time and eventually lead to larger issues.

I'm thinking of a small amount of water (from the every few years 6" storm or laps in gutter cleaning duties) that spreads across the floor into a shallow puddle. In this case, the water would run down the walls of the foundation, spread (shallowly) across the floor, and would not create any noticeable mark in the living space that water entered the building.

DRIcore installation instructions note that you can increase airflow under the subfloor by cutting 3 x 10, or 4 x 10, air register vent openings every 10 around the perimeter walls. I haven't seen any similar guidance for the other similar products such as Superseal, Delta-FL, or Platon, but it seems like the same principles would apply.

I do not want to use DRIcore because of my limited ceiling height, but I like the idea of the dimple layer to protect both against moisture wicking through the concrete and any water that may eventually leak from the foundation walls. I don't have water issues today, but I have in the past an feel that I should assume that during the life of the space, water will leak through the walls and spread across the floor. (Seems like there are two kinds of basements: those that leak, and those that will leak)

The one challenge I see with using standard floor registers (as noted with DRIcore) with the options that do not include OSB is that there is a depth to them that is probably beyond the thickness of the 1/8" subfloor and a 12mm laminate flooring (for example).

Am I over thinking the scenario? Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences on the drying time of shallow puddles underneath one of these dimpled subfloors?

Thanks,

profcolli 01-18-2013 04:20 AM

I have a few months experience of the dimpled dricore (SubFlor here in Quebec, Canada) and have no issues with moisture puddling. Have had a couple of water "floods" while redoing my plumbing and the concrete floor has drained off correctly (usual slope to floor drain) and dried out quickly..

One advantage is that the air movement/thermal break provided by the dricore seems to have completely eliminated patches of effloresecence experienced with previously installed tar paper/wood subloor. I have no air register openings, nor have I seen any instructions for them from my supplier http://www.subflor.com/ADVANCE/install.asp

Using dricore has increased my ceiling height by two inches by eliminating a 2x3 wood subloor plus 1/2 inch plywood - I don't know how it can decrease yours unless your floor is directly on the concrete pad. :icon_confused:

ixj 01-24-2013 10:44 PM

Right now its basically new finished space, and so I don't have any finished flooring. There are a couple of low places with soffits, so ceiling height is premium.

Thanks for the info. What you mention with the "floods" is what I was worried about.

brockmiera 01-25-2013 11:54 AM

Can you lay engineered wood right on the dricore?

profcolli 01-25-2013 12:06 PM

Dimpled, not simpled?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ixj (Post 1101437)
Right now its basically new finished space, and so I don't have any finished flooring. There are a couple of low places with soffits, so ceiling height is premium.

Thanks for the info. What you mention with the "floods" is what I was worried about.

As long as you have a correct slope to your concrete floor, water should flow through the dimpled channel pattern to your floor drain. Unless you leave the floor bare, I guess you are going to lose ceiling height anyway, so 7/8inch is not bad considering you get the thermal break and a subfloor.

I did not want to put anything wood directly on my floor because I have four hot water heaters in my basement, and they are inevitably going to break and flood and the water goes through my finished space on the way to the drain (happened several times over the years). I put down this product specifically because it raises everything up above an impervious plastic base and doesn't leave any wood on the floor (my standard subfloor had rotted from this type of thing).

I checked the DriCore site and I see their mention of air registers, but my understanding is that it should not be necessary if you respect the expansion gaps and the 1/8inch gap below baseboards. Air movement will then be possible under the floor.

profcolli 01-25-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brockmiera (Post 1101770)
Can you lay engineered wood right on the dricore?

Yes, either floating or nailed with 1/2inch nails so the dimpled membrane is not penetrated. The link in my first reply gives all the different flooring instructions. Other types of floor may require underlayment of some kind or another.

I am using water and mildew proof Classen D-sign Aqua Comfort floating planks made from recycled pvc with a white oak pattern top - 48inch x 6inch x 1/8inch, no glue in the megaloc tongue and groove, so no food for mold there either. This is for a basement bathroom and laundry area where spills are inevitable (and the old structure had mildew), so mop n'go was necessary. Costs about the same as engineered hardwood, but I got 50% off on a Boxing Week special at my local big box :thumbup:

http://design.classen.de/eng/

ixj 01-27-2013 10:51 AM

Does Dimple size Matter
 
Down the same line of letting any water that may come in pass to the floor drain and then eventually dry out: Does the size of the dimples matter significantly?

Superseal has a dimple size of 1/8" whereas the Platon is 1/4". I know we're only talking about 1/8", but (balancing against ceiling height, will the extra space from Platon (or other manufactures) make a significant difference?

Thanks again,

profcolli 01-28-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixj (Post 1103097)
Down the same line of letting any water that may come in pass to the floor drain and then eventually dry out: Does the size of the dimples matter significantly?

Superseal has a dimple size of 1/8" whereas the Platon is 1/4". I know we're only talking about 1/8", but (balancing against ceiling height, will the extra space from Platon (or other manufactures) make a significant difference?

Thanks again,

Sorry, I only know about Dricore (locally SubFlor) which has 1/4inch dimple. I see from the ads that pop up on this site that dricore claim 150 billion? or million? square feet installed - reminds me of when McDonalds's used to do that with their hamburger count.

Anyway, I have absolutely no expertise, but I also see it used by several Canadian HGTV home renovation show hosts whenever they do basements, which is what got me interested in the product. I presume the larger size might allow more airflow? Water accumulation of even 1/8inch over 500square feet would be a lot of water... the floor drain would need to be big enough to cope.


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